Abi Prendergast [00:00:00]:

You can recreate that empathy they have in a sales call that enables those conversion rates to be so high because you're you get to listen to your the person you're selling to and hear their specific objections and hear what's going on in their life.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:14]:

Welcome to the creator's adventure Where we interview creators from around the world hearing their stories about growing a business. Today, we're gonna share a copywriting process that anyone could apply to their business to get more sales. Hey, everyone. I'm Brian McAnulty, the founder of HUD's platform. Let's get into it. Hey, everyone. We're here today with Abby Prendergast. She has over a decade of experience In freelance copywriting and is the founder of the APT process, a specialized methodology for creating high converting sales funnels and helping course creators increased conversion rates and make more sales.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:54]:

Abby, welcome to the show.

Abi Prendergast [00:00:56]:

Hi, Brian. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:00]:

Yeah. So my first question for you is, what would you say is the biggest thing you did or are doing that helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy? Oh,

Abi Prendergast [00:01:11]:

good question. I mean, I I kind of always knew that I wanted to to do freelancing entrepreneurship in some capacity. Like, I wanted that freedom, like, not having to to work for someone else, go into, like, an an office in, like, 9 to 5 every day. I mean, at the beginning, it was just a case of kind of taking any any job that paid, where I got paid to write. And I I guess the the freedom came when I started owning what I do to and saying, yes. I have something to offer. I have something to offer for my clients. I care about upskilling.

Abi Prendergast [00:01:50]:

I care about bring the best service to my clients, and that really is what empowered me to then charge more. And, of course, when you you charge more, you take on fewer Heights, you have more time to do the things you enjoy, and I think that's really when I started to feel like, yeah. No. I I I do have the freedom in my life that I actually wanted to, as a freelancer as opposed to just being a freelancer kind of scrambling for spare pennies.

Bryan McAnulty [00:02:18]:

Yeah. Yeah. True. I'm curious. Like, you said that you kinda always knew you wanted to be a freelancer. Can you point to, like, any Any specific things or feelings? Like, did you ever have a more traditional job, or how how did that exactly work for you?

Abi Prendergast [00:02:33]:

No. I didn't. I can remember, like, in school, speaking to one of my teachers, an I was just really frustrated because, like, you know, we we we were, like, 17, and we'd have to put our hand up to go to used the the toilet, the bathroom, or whatever. So I know it's just like, this is, like, ridiculous. And she's just like, well, you know, you're always gonna have to follow rules. Like, when you you know, you're working at a job, there's always rules. And I was just I just remember thinking, why? Why? I don't want that. Like, I wanna I wanna be my own boss.

Abi Prendergast [00:03:08]:

Someone to make my own rules. And so just straight away, like, I was already looking at ways I could make money online. I mean, I did I did go to university. I did kind of start down on a traditional, rate, but I was freelancing throughout that. And by the time I finished, I was just like, I you know, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna keep doing this, and see how I can make it work.

Bryan McAnulty [00:03:31]:

Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I mean, I went through a similar journey myself. And for me, in, like, the last, years of high school, like, I was just over it. And, like, same kind of idea. Why do I have to do these And I think it's a great question for, entrepreneur to ask themselves, like, why not? Why can't it be something different? And for me at that time, It wasn't, so much about, like, the the rules in the same way that you mentioned. For me, what was something is, like, I just wanted to be done with it and And do things that I enjoyed.

Bryan McAnulty [00:04:04]:

And so in my senior year of high school, like, I had organized it so I had the classes that, for at least 1 or 2 quarters of the year, I was going into school, and I'd be there at, like, 7:30, And I would leave at 9:30. Like, I had, like, 2 hour school day because I already did all of my other classes. And, like, I could have taken other, like, math classes or science or whatever, But I just wanted to go home and, like, figure out my business or or do something that I wanted to work on. And, It was, it was an interesting experience with that because, like, no one had done that. Everyone had taken, like, these study break periods, like, throughout the years To, like, space all that out. And I never took any of those so I could just leave early. And so, like because I asked, like, the the The guidance counselor in the school was like, so if I have those those extra periods, I can take this early release. Can I take multiple early releases and just Leave really early? I mean, like, I guess you could.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:00]:

And so that's that's what I did, and then, I went just right into my business out of high school. But it was, like, for me, I was thinking, like, it it wasn't, like, natural in the sense of, like, Oh, I'm just gonna do this. I know I'm gonna do this, but it came from actually, like, a worry of, like, everybody's trying to figure out, like, What they're gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do. I have to figure that out, and I felt like I really needed to discover that for myself.

Abi Prendergast [00:05:28]:

Mhmm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:05:29]:

Whereas maybe other people We're more laid back and like, oh, I'll go to university. I'll go to college, then I'll figure it out. And so the the desire to figure that out, Earlier, because of my own, like, worries about it, probably helped me move forward faster. But, yeah, I think that's that's interesting, and I think creator should Ask themselves. Why not? So was it always, like, conversion copywriting or more regular copywriting? Like, what you what got you into conversion copywriting specifically?

Abi Prendergast [00:05:59]:

Yeah. I mean, it was it was originally just writing. Like, I love to write. That's always just been what I've been drawn to. Like, it started out as fiction, and then, you know, people aren't aren't hiring freelancers for that. So for at the beginning, it was just it was mostly like blog posts, just content writing. And then once I discovered copywriting, because I'd already kind of been interested in psychology. Like, I'm like, I'm always interested in kind of what makes people tick, how the human mind works.

Abi Prendergast [00:06:30]:

So that seemed like a really curious opportunity to me to kind of partner psychology with my desire to write. And then through doing copywriting, yeah. I was working with businesses, enjoying it. It's kind of combining these 2 skill sets. And then, I started really caring about results, and the question became how do I get the best results for my Heights? And that was when I discovered conversion copywriting. For those of you that don't know, conversion copywriting is research driven as data backed. So, rather than kind of pulling messages out of thin air, think thinking about what might convert, it's about, actually going into the data, doing customer interviews, doing surveys, data mining, review mining, and finding those messages from your audience so you can then billed that into your copywriting, into your funnels, so that you can be fairly confident that it's gonna connect and really minimize the guesswork, which increases the chances of getting results. Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:33]:

So I'm thinking, like, from the perspective of a creator who is, like, just building out a a Chorus or community or some kind of sales funnel now. Mhmm. And they're curious about, like, well, what even goes into this process? When you work with a 1 on 1 client, could you walk us through, like, what are the initial steps that you would take in, like, mapping that out? And, like, how how would you tailor that different for different types of clients?

Abi Prendergast [00:07:59]:

Sure. So, my signature process, and the the service that people hire me for most is called, day 1 evergreen. And it's essentially a funnel that's designed to sell you a course on autopilot, and then it has a customer feedback loop built into it so that I can then take the insights, spilled that into the funnel, so conversions improve, over time. So when, someone would hire me to do that, the first thing I do is obviously chat to them. Like, I always you know, I I love talking to the creators because well, I mean, you guys know you pour so much love and passion into your course, and I wanna hear that. Don't wanna soak that up and make sure it's it pours onto the sales page. I think when we're writing our own copy, it can be difficult to translate that cash in, and we end up sometimes resorting to, like, marketing cliches when really like, we've got something. We've got something special, and we need our readers to to feel that.

Abi Prendergast [00:08:55]:

So I always talk to the client and any other members of the team. And then

Bryan McAnulty [00:09:01]:

I Yeah. I think I want I want you to continue, but I wanna just interject right there because I think that's a really good point that often Creators have something really special, and they don't know how to communicate it. And they're talking to somebody else like you, and then you realize like, wow. You just told me all these things. I had no idea about that when I looked at your website, but now now I know. And so you can help them to make sure to actually communicate those things.

Abi Prendergast [00:09:23]:

Oh, exactly. Or peep people will they'll be talking, and they'll be like, oh, yeah. And I have I have this in my course. And I'm like, woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah.

Abi Prendergast [00:09:29]:

Woah. Woah. Low. You've just, like, skipped over that, but I don't know anyone else that's doing that. That's awesome when we talk about that a bit more. And then as you go into it, and it's like, that should be your hook. You've totally buried the lead there, but that this is fantastic. Why are you not talking about that? But, yeah, I mean, I say my when I'm writing my own copy, I always get other pea other copywriters to look at it because I know that when I'm too close, I'm gonna miss stuff.

Abi Prendergast [00:09:56]:

So, yeah, that's the first thing. Talk to the client. I always go into the course, and see for self. I only work with course creators where I've I've been in the course and I really believe in it. That's one of to that's just one of my values. I believe in the power of copywriting. I've seen the power of copywriting to sell courses, so I wanna be part of selling courses that I love and think are great. And then after I spoken to the client, the next step is to speak to the audience, and that is where the gold comes in.

Abi Prendergast [00:10:27]:

I mean, you you you guys know, like, the the basics of marketing. Like, you can you can start by talking about a problem, and then offer your solution, like, all that stuff. But that problem is gonna fall flat unless you're speaking in the language of your smart. If if they can't contextualize that problem in their own lives, then it's not gonna resonate. So the best way to to to get that copy is to just talk talk to talk to customers. So I'll always interview, like, 5 to 7, people and just awesome, like, what was going on in your life when you when you purchased this and really dig just keep digging and and get that good stuff. And the stuff that comes up, it's it's amazing. I mean, it's like you did like these conversations.

Abi Prendergast [00:11:13]:

Yeah. Absolute gold. Like, these interviews write the copy for me, and then, I look at, like, the forums that people are, like, moaning on, like, when they're like, for example, if I'm writing a course on parenting, I'll look at the mom forums and see, okay. What their complaining about what language do they use, what do they what are they celebrating in the testimonials on similar courses, how do they quantify when. And it's a case of really assembling the copy, not not necessarily writing it and actually using all that voice of customer to to craft the messaging, and it's gonna it will resonate because it's made up of your it off your audience. It's like the you the people you're selling to are creating the messages for you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to to describe it. I think That it's it's so helpful to get that feedback. And, like, you don't I think creators hear certain things like this, and they think, man, I'm not really, like, analytical. I don't I don't have this whole process of, like, calculating all these things and all the the data behind it. And it doesn't have to be like that exactly. Like, it's really just Getting on calls, responding to messages, making sure there's a way that people can submit these messages.

Bryan McAnulty [00:12:24]:

And that way, when you get that information, like, They're telling you, like, oh, this was my problem. And then you realize, like, oh, like, all these people say that this thing was their issue. Like, now I can just say, like, this solves that issue And communicate it much better to them.

Abi Prendergast [00:12:38]:

A 100%. Like, you don't need to be reviewing, like, thousands of server responses. I mean, you know, you'd but it's it's really if you think about the most empathetic sales call you've ever had, like the one where you were talking to a client and and they you just spoke to them like a friend, well and they opened up to you. That call will write your sales Platform you better than any marketing guru, any any content you'll read, go into that call and and use that as the the foundation for your sales page.

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's great because, like, that's a call also that, like, creators, like, you've probably done that. So you're you can make your Your copy be similar. What would you say are, like, the main marketing activities that course creators need to do if they want to Increase those conversion rates apart from what we already talked about.

Abi Prendergast [00:13:31]:

Yeah. So your sales page is I mean, that. That should be your best sales sales call in print, as we just said. If you're selling a high ticket course or even a mid ticket course, like $500, like I I recommend having a webinar because it's it's an opportunity for your audience to actually see you to build that know, like, and trust factor, for them to get a feel for your energy, and that webinar can actually replace the sales call. I mean, if you if you want to automate your sales, which we all do, we all have that dream of just waking up to the sales rolling in. You know, you have to turn your Stripe notifications off because they're just pinging all the time. Like, who doesn't have that dream? And to get that, yes, you do you need to automate it. And a a webinar is just a beautiful way to do that because people can get that feel for you as they would in that sales going.

Abi Prendergast [00:14:23]:

If you've done your research properly, you can recreate that empathy they have in a sales call that enables those conversion rates to be so high because you're you get to listen to your the person you're selling to and hear their specific objections and hear what's going on in their life. But if you, you know, if you if you do those calls before recording your webinar, you can build again, you can build that conversation and that empathy into your webinar, and it can have it can have high conversion as well, and then you get to actually step out step out of your business and and literally wake up to sales.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. And then that's something that I think is really great about this that it's easy to be overwhelmed as a a creator and business owner and think of, like, well, what is the next step? But in this kind of business, like, there's almost always a clear next step of where you can continually optimize everything. And, like, if you if you don't have a copywriter like yourself yet, if you don't have this optimized sales page, you can still do that webinar, And that can help fix the holes in some of that copy because you'll get all these questions, and then you'll realize like, oh, all these things I could be answering earlier on in the copy or it could be answering even in the presentation itself ahead of time. And then as you said, then you just keep iterating iterating and improving that. And, Then once you get to the point that you you really can't think of, anything else to improve, like, it's probably going to be working out pretty well for you.

Abi Prendergast [00:15:49]:

Yeah. Absolutely. And, I mean, on on the topic of that, of of optimization, so I I love prerecorded webinars because that that is when it is fully automated. Like, live webinars are awesome, but the whole idea of day 1 evergreen is you don't have to continuously live launch and show up. It could be really draining, and it could be a lot of pressure. You can prerecord a webinar if you are willing to do exactly what you said and review the feedback and optimize. The one thing I love to do is have a thank you page survey. So most creators just treat their thank you page as like a dead end.

Abi Prendergast [00:16:23]:

It's like, thanks for signing up. But instead, have have just a 1 question survey, and I this is from Jana Weeb, actually, coined his question. It's is what was going on in your life that brought you here today. And the amount of voice of customer you'll get from that question, it's it's what marketers will call it seduceable moments, so they've just got that free instant access. So they're happy. They're more likely to actually a response, then you just send a random email. And they they will tell you either the problem, the desire, and you can then build that voice of customer back into a webinar on the next iteration and watch your conversion rates literally climb.

Bryan McAnulty [00:17:02]:

Yeah. That's great advice. And, yeah, questions like that, can be really Powerful.

Abi Prendergast [00:17:07]:

Mhmm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:17:07]:

So, you also work with, like, setting up funnels. Could Could you describe what you feel is, like, the ideal funnel for a course creator who has maybe multiple products?

Abi Prendergast [00:17:21]:

Yeah. I mean, oh, the, yeah, the the ideal funnel. Who's to say it's it depends? Just obviously, I'm just saying it depends. Enjoy or feel like something. Obviously, I'm gonna say Dale and Evergreen because that's my funnel. So it's people sign up for a webinar, and that webinar, they're they're signing up, because they want a transformation. Right? So the transformation that you offer in your course, that's how you pull them in the webinar. And inside that webinar, you give them you give them the what, but you don't give them the how.

Abi Prendergast [00:17:51]:

So you tell them what the steps are, and then, you're kind of closing the gap between where they are and where they wanna be. And then right before you pitch, you widen that gap gap again, and then that's where you offer the how as part of your solution. And then following the webinar, a sales sequence, I, I I'm a fan of urgency or I rather I have this love hate relationship with it. Like, I get really turned off by the fake urgency. You know, when you see a sales page with a countdown timer, and then you

Bryan McAnulty [00:18:22]:

hit refresh

Abi Prendergast [00:18:22]:

in terms starting. Yeah. Yeah. But I I do I mean, I have just seen conversion rates improved when you have some kind of earn seat built in. So what I recommend is is creating a limited time offer even on your automated funnel, which is based essentially a 7 day window when they sign up, the the countdown starts. Because it's I mean, it's not it's not fake urgency. It's more like saying to them like, hey. Look.

Abi Prendergast [00:18:51]:

You took action. You sign up this webinar. You show me you're interested in achieving x, y, zed. And to show you I'm I care about you achieving that. Here's here's a discount or something, that you can get during this limited time window, and you can use a tool like Deadline Funnel, which tracks cookies across devices. So even if they sign up with another email address, it won't it won't reset that timer. It truly is like a one time offer. And, yeah, the the difference in conversion rates, I've seen people go from literally, like, 1% conversions to 5% conversions just by adding that urgency.

Abi Prendergast [00:19:26]:

And as a copywriter, it kind of pains me to admit that because, obviously, you want the messaging to do the heavy lifting. But, yeah, I do I do really advocate having some sort of IFC built into your funnel, and doesn't necessarily have to be a discount. It could also you can just build in the urgency around what's going on in their life as well. Like, what's the cost of inaction. You can do that with messaging, but you need to give, customers, like, a reason to act now, not 6 months from now.

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:55]:

Yeah. Like, in our own marketing, we always try to think of, like, well, what are what are our reasons that we have, like, right now? Like,

Abi Prendergast [00:20:02]:

And

Bryan McAnulty [00:20:02]:

and you wanna stack either as many of those or the strong reasons that you have as possible. And, like, when you don't have reasons, like, that's when you have to, like, give discounts. Like, the discount then becomes the reason. And so, like, that's an easy one to do, but that involves lowering your price in some way. And combining that with urgency then can can really work. One of the the interesting things not to get into, like, My own software too much, but something that I like is, like, if you wanna have, like, a program where it's kind of evergreen, but it's more separated into, like, cohorts. Like, let's say, like, people can always enroll, but, like, you have 4 main cohorts throughout the year Mhmm. Then you could still like, a very similar launch process and marketing process.

Bryan McAnulty [00:20:46]:

But then what we do is we have a feature where people can always buy it, and they can prepurchase For the next, like, cohort launch period, but then they won't get access until that time of when it actually opens. And that helps you as a creator because if you are going to be involved in, like, checking through, like, students and members, like, what they're submitting and everything, then you kinda know at a certain place as opposed to, like, completely evergreen where, like, random people are completing random lessons, and you kinda have to figure out when you get a support request, like, where is this person even at? You know that, like, okay. Well, this cohort launched, like, a a week ago, so, like, anyone asking me questions now is roughly at this stage. And but it stays evergreen because people can buy at any time. So the launch happens, and then the next one is immediately available for purchase. But then, like you said, it also has some of that urgency because, like, if you wanted to take it right now, like, now you missed it. Now you can still buy it, but You have to wait until, like, a month later before you can actually get in with everybody else. And so there's some time urgency, And, I think that's another way to do it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:21:54]:

Like, if you're a creator that that wants to approach it that way. There's so many ways you could approach it really.

Abi Prendergast [00:21:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I I just had a client who's a a career coach, and I set up a day whenever we're in final, but she has live cohorts. And it's like, well, that's perfect because there already is urgency there.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:10]:

Yeah.

Abi Prendergast [00:22:11]:

But, also, there's the urgency around the fact that the people that she's coaching are trying to navigate the job market. They need to land a job. I mean, that's very obvious urgency to tap into. It's just about, like, obviously doing it sensitively. Like, you don't wanna, like, shame people, panic people into buying. But, you know, encouraged them to be, like, upfront and about, about the what really is at stake, if they make a decision versus if they just keep putting it off.

Bryan McAnulty [00:22:42]:

Yep. Yeah. So can you tell us maybe any stories you can think of about Maybe a launch that didn't go the way that you wanted it to and, like, any experiences that you had and, like, being able to, like, later turn that around?

Abi Prendergast [00:22:58]:

Yeah. I I mean, I have a story about a launch that didn't go as we planned, and that was actually what inspired day 1 evergreen. So this was a creator, that I'd worked with before. We'd got we'd had a successful funnel for one of her programs. She added an audience, and then we built out this epic live launch funnel with 3 webinars, like all these upsells, downsells, fast action bonuses, like, just all the bells and whistles. And we were we were psyched for it. We were like, this is this is gonna be like a high 6 figure launch for sure. And then when on the day the 1st webinar came, arrived, it was, we we waited.

Abi Prendergast [00:23:39]:

People started coming into the room. And then 5 minutes in, we realized there were only, I think, like, 25 people in there. It was like a 3% shop rate. So all the hundreds of leads that she bought on Facebook book just didn't show. And we were we were shocked. I mean, she was obviously gutted, like and fair play to her. She kept her energy up throughout that webinar for those 25 people. But that experience really that was what made me like, moved me away from live launches, and I was like, okay.

Abi Prendergast [00:24:12]:

Yeah. They they're so fun. Like, they give me a great cash injection. Like, it's fantastic when they work well and you see the money rolling in, but it's also it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself, and that me as a copywriter, because I, you know, I'm invested in my client's success, and it's like, when their yearly like, the yearly income is dependent on this one launch. All it takes is 1 broken link, and people can't get into the Zoom room. And then you've, like, 100 of 1,000 of dollars of predicted revenue are just gone. So that inspired me to to build a day whenever green to like, take all the principles of live launching that's so effective, build it into a dev an evergreen funnel, and then build that to my feedback component in so that I can continue optimizing. So rather than live launching every time, we need, like, a cash injection, action just more looking at the funnel.

Abi Prendergast [00:25:04]:

How can we optimize this to make it more effective and create, like, sustainable, predictable, sensible growth rather than just putting everything into, like, these 7 day windows that may or may not go as planned.

Bryan McAnulty [00:25:17]:

Yeah. Yeah. Personally, I do enjoy the evergreen process better as well. And maybe it's partially just because my business being more software than courses Is that, like, we want people to always be signing up. But, like, even for myself personally, like, I'd rather be just continuously improving the product and working on that rather than, like, having to feel it's all building up to this. And then as you said, like, one thing going wrong, it just puts a lot of stress on the whole thing.

Abi Prendergast [00:25:46]:

Yeah. And things are changing so quickly. Like, you can do a live launch, collect all this data. Like, you could have, like, an amazing copywriting course, like, that you launched last January, and then chat GBT comes out, and then everything has changed. So what are you gonna do? Do you wait another year to test the messaging? Whereas if you have an evergreen funnel, you can start testing straight away and optimizing straight away. Yeah. So everything's always, like, as fresh and up to date as possible, which is, yeah, just another reason why I love evergreen.

Bryan McAnulty [00:26:16]:

Yeah. You get, like, you get the feedback loop, like, immediately, which I think is great. Like, not only for a marketer, but also for a creator to just allow you to keep iterating on everything.

Abi Prendergast [00:26:26]:

Yeah. And, like, as you said as well, you want it to be available all the time. And I think as a course market Heights increasingly saturated. More and peep more people are gonna say, like, okay. Like, I I like this course, a car by now, and I'm gonna go somewhere else. Like, we are in an instant gratification world. You know? We could order something on Amazon Prime, and it's there on your doorstep, like, the next day or even the same day. So I think, yeah, that's another downside to live launching.

Abi Prendergast [00:26:53]:

Like, fair enough if you're like Amy Porterfield and you've got this amazing huge audience that's totally loyal to you. But for most of us, people are probably gonna go where other than, like, maybe a small percentage of your most loyal people, like, you're better off just giving your audience what they want when they want it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:12]:

Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, like, the the marketing and everything building up to it. Like, we've we've suffered from the same thing before of, like, we got all these leads, And we're like, great. This is awesome. We found these really cheap leads on Facebook, and then it turns out, oh, they that's why they were cheap leads. They don't do anything. And, So, like, yeah, it's it's hard to, like, only find that out so much later, versus, like, just continuously working on, like, okay.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:38]:

We're steadily getting more and steadily growing. So I agree with that. Mhmm. We saw from your Instagram page that you love traveling and you Worked as a digital nomad for quite a while. How would you say traveling, has influenced your approach to business and copywriting?

Abi Prendergast [00:27:55]:

I love that question. No one's ever asked me that before. Yeah. So, I mean, that was also going back to the original question, that was part of why I got on into this because I love to travel, and, obviously, you can't do much of it if you're working a 9 to 5. But traveling, yeah, definitely has made me a better copywriter because, like, I've just had so many conversations with different people, and I think traveling really taught me how to listen. You know, like, at first when, you know, when you go going to Vietnam the 1st time, and it's amazing and beautiful. And then, like, there's only so many, like, mountains you can see before you're like, okay. It's another mountain.

Abi Prendergast [00:28:37]:

But people, like, every person that I've met has had a different story. And, like, yeah. I just I it honed my ability to listen, and that's so useful for when I'm doing customer interviews. And I'm, like, trying to understand like, to put myself in the mindset of of the customer. And then also just like the the faculty to wonder. Like, I think traveling really keeps that alive. It's something we will have as kids and as we become adults and kind of, you know, we get more bitter and jaded. I found that, yeah, traveling, it just keeps me, like, excited about the world and what's going on and, like, that's the stuff the, I wanna be absorbing all the time because coffee like, it needs to, you know, it needs to have color.

Abi Prendergast [00:29:20]:

It needs to be exciting. If you're bored writing it, people in it. So I think, yeah, though those 2 ways, I I believe maybe a better copywriter.

Bryan McAnulty [00:29:29]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I love traveling myself And, been to to more than 30 countries and stuff in the past 15 years or so. And it's, yeah, definitely so helpful for, like, creative inspiration, just as a education as you said, like, being able to learn so much about the world. And I also love just, like, meeting the people. And, like, for me, like, if we would get an Airbnb trying to get one where it's like, we know that the host would somehow, like, be in involved or whatever.

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:01]:

Like, those were the ones where it was the best experiences for me. Yeah. Like, I remember this one. My wife and I, we went to Budapest, and, Like, we didn't even plan it. We were like, let's where did we not go in Europe? Budapest. Okay. Whatever. Let's go.

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:15]:

And, like, no no real thought beforehand. We went there, And I think maybe originally we were gonna stay for, like, a couple weeks. And, like, we love the place so much, like, after, like, I think it was, like, only 24 hours or so. We were like, let's extend it. And, like, we asked the host, can we extend it for, like, 2 months? And, we spent, like, the summer in Budapest, and the host was so nice that, like, he had this beautiful place, but he was like, yeah. This is just one of my places. And he He was an entrepreneur, and he was, like, a a story writer and everything. And, he took us out to, like, go have lunch and told us all about the city and everything.

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:50]:

And, like, that those kind of experiences, like, were worth, like, so much and really Mhmm. So helpful, not only as a learning experience, but just Enjoyable and inspirational while traveling as well.

Abi Prendergast [00:31:02]:

Yeah. No. Totally. Yeah. Like, yeah, I can think of experiences like as well just like and people, yeah, just take take you into their homes as well. Like, home I remember, like, at the beginning when I was when I was a a freelancer a emphasis on the free. And people would just, like, take me into their homes, let me crash on their couches, and just, like, that kindness and that generosity, and it, like I know. I just feel like joy is so good for creatives.

Abi Prendergast [00:31:32]:

Like, getting that that joy, that connection. Like, it's yeah. Like you said, it's just in it's inspiring. It it keeps you alive, excited to to

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, I my analogy to, like, people who haven't traveled is kind of like if you just stay in the same place the whole time, it's like you're playing a video game, But then you never leave level 1. And it's like, well, it might be a nice level, but, like, don't you wanna see the other ones? And that's that's the kind of the way that I look at it.

Abi Prendergast [00:32:01]:

So Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:32:02]:

Yeah. That's great.

Abi Prendergast [00:32:04]:

Love it.

Bryan McAnulty [00:32:04]:

You mentioned you work with some high profile clients. Can you share, Like, any standout lesson or experiences from collaborating with them?

Abi Prendergast [00:32:14]:

Yeah. Sure. So I'm trying to think who I've worked with. I I work with Amy Forthfield. That was amazing. She's been like a dream client of mine since I started in the course of really. I just think, yeah, she's she's amazing. That that what I learned from that was, I I think, what an organized team looks like because she has her assign a board, all the project workflows, every she has systems in place to make sure everybody's collaborating in the best way.

Abi Prendergast [00:32:43]:

And that was really interesting for me because a lot of my clients in the past have been kind of solely for now. Maybe I speak to their VA, their designer. Everything was a bit more piecemealed. So, yeah, that was inspiring because I was like, yeah. This is how I want my business set up. And then I I worked for copy hackers. I'm currently a coach inside freelancing school, the copy hackers program, where I'm learning all the time, like, from speaking to other freelancers, seeing their problems. And, I mean, writing for Jonna Weeb because she's she's my favorite copywriter.

Abi Prendergast [00:33:16]:

She mentored me, Bryan getting her feedback on the the stuff I write, that's just so valuable. I'm just, like, literally kind of, like, watching the Google Doc when she pops up, seeing what she's gonna say, and, obviously, the validation as well from from writing. And when she when she does to say, yeah. All good. No. No. It's something like, but yeah. So those those 2 clients definitely stand out for me as ones that I've re really enjoyed working with and just learned a lot from, yeah, being in their world, seeing how what goes on behind the scenes.

Bryan McAnulty [00:33:49]:

Yeah. That's great. Alright. Well, 1 more question for you, and that is, on the show, I like to ask every guest to have a question for the audience. So If you could ask our audience have anything, something you're curious about, something you wanna get people thinking about, what would that be?

Abi Prendergast [00:34:04]:

Yeah. Okay. So yeah. I mean, we touch a little bit on urgency, and I talked about those, like, fake account on timers. And I'm I'm really curious about about this at the moment, about how people respond to, like, stuff like urgency and all bonuses. And when, you know, when you see those, like, really overinflated values of other bonuses, it's like, okay. Like, sure. The checklist you made on hammered in 10 minutes is worth $2,000.

Abi Prendergast [00:34:31]:

So I'm just, like, curious what your pet peeves are, when you're buying courses. I I think most course creators enjoy buying courses. Yeah. Is there anything that you see in marketing that gives you the comfortable that you just wouldn't do. I would love to know that.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:49]:

Yeah. It's a great question. I'm curious about that as well. Alright. Well, Abby, thanks so much for coming on the show. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Abi Prendergast [00:35:00]:

You can find me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my main platform. I love connecting with people on there and chatting, things. So please do. Feel free to send me a a request, slide into my inbox. I am on Instagram. I'm very new, so, I would appreciate some some love over there, like, as I struggle to grow my following. And then if you are interested in creating sustainable growth, with an automated funnel.

Abi Prendergast [00:35:25]:

I have a webinar, which you can grab on my website, which is aftcontent.co.uk.

Bryan McAnulty [00:35:32]:

Alright. Awesome. Thanks so much.

Abi Prendergast [00:35:34]:

Thank you. It's a pleasure being here.

Bryan McAnulty [00:35:36]:

I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 creators at creatorclimb.com. If you enjoyed this episode and wanna hear more, check out the Heights Platform YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9 AM US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at the creator's adventure.com. Until then, keep learning, and I'll see you in the next episode.