Bryan McAnulty: Welcome to the Creator's Adventure, where we interview Creator's from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. When do you start using ads in your business and how can you become successful with them today? I'm talking with Ryan Mathews about how he started and sold his online education business for multiple seven figures by the age of 20.

Hey everyone. I'm Bryan McAnulty. I'm the founder of Heights Platform. Let's get into the show.

Hey everyone. We're here today with Ryan Mathews. He is an expert in online education businesses. He specializes in scaling great products, using direct response marketing and creating optimized sales processes. He started and sold an education business for multi seven figures by the age of 20. Ryan. Welcome to the show.

Ryan Mathews: Thanks. You, how are you, man? I'm excited to be here.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, me too. So my first question for you, I like to ask a lot of guests this recently, what would you say is the biggest thing that either you did or you are doing that has helped you achieve the freedom to do the things that you enjoy?

Ryan Mathews: That's a good question, man. I recently a friend of mine asked me to come up with a list of leading indicators that he called. That led to me being able to sell that company for more to seven figures and ultimately build it to that point. And I wrote down a lot of different things from, you know, being able to make great offers, being able to come up with, you know, great marketing and great hooks and all these different aspects of just things that led to that success.

But then I got to the end of the list and the thing that I ended up writing down was being willing to be, to be mentored. Right. Which obviously I think for people instead of the education space, Really natural, right. Because that's what we do for people. So we automatically assume that that's good for us to do as well.

But I think not only being willing to seek out the help, but I've just been told by a lot of different people that I've sought help from, whether it be Sam ovens or, you know, different people that I just did a very good job at listening. Right. I don't want too horn. I is coming from them. So just taking what they knew and applying it really without changing anything, because they were further ahead than.

Right. And then once I got to the point where I felt like I kind of preferred the way I had something over the way they had it, then I started to change it. If that made sense. So just kind of following what they said initially, very simply until I got the results that they were getting.

Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah. I think that's a really great example.

And yeah, I think what you're getting at is a lot of people say like, oh, I'm willing to listen to people, but they don't really deeply listen to what the person's saying. And if they, if they, they hear it, but then they kind of go and do something else. And so you're saying you, you literally did exactly what it is that you were taught and then modify that after that.

But you, you really, really deeply listen to what people tell you.

Ryan Mathews: Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty: Cool. I like that. So to start off many in our audience, I think would call themselves more. So a creator than a digital marketer. And mm-hmm, ultimately though to succeed with an online education business, it's gonna be necessary to learn how to market your products.

And for some Creator's like just starting out, getting to seven figures may seem like a dream still. So I'd like to hear. A little bit about your story, how you started, and then later kind of dive into how Creator's can start their journey of growth. And then if they're a successful creator already, how they can further their growth.

So can you go into a little bit of detail of your background, how you got started?

Ryan Mathews: For sure. It's interesting. You mentioned the fact that you have a lot of Creator's and they're not necessarily digital marketers because I leaned into that and that's a big reason why I am where I am. Is I very much so am a digital marketer at heart, or at least a marketer at heart.

Like even as a kid, I remember buying cereal boxes, like, or my dad would buy a cereal box and I'd be sitting there in the. You know, eating my cereal and like wondering, like why would they put that there? And like, you know, then you're like, why do they put it on that shelf? And just wondering from a very young age, why companies did certain things or watching a TV, commercial, and wondering if there was any rhyme or reason behind the color they chose, or, you know, the actor they chose or whatever it may be.

Right. So it was very natural for me when I started my first company to just dive very deeply into that. Then eventually, you know, I kind had multiple e-commerce stores and some retail arbitrage. It was just kind of really going around. Just kind of tiptoeing all these different business models, going all in, but not really knowing much and kind of stacking the proverbial brick bridge, if you will, of just learning different skills.

So I was gonna get to the other side of seven figures. And I was working at a consultancy, a coaching company, doing sales from a one of, really one of my first mentors that taught me eCommerce, web design, all that type of stuff. And I was doing sales for him. And another friend there that was doing sales as well.

And we on the side just started developing some websites for different, you know, people that were asking us to. So without even knowing it, we kind of started this small. And got it pretty quickly to six figures within like, like almost no time at all. And then I ended up telling the company owner, I was like, oh yeah, man.

We started, you know, designing these websites. He's like, oh, well, if you're gonna do that, I feel like you should just do that and not work for us. Cuz he just didn't like the idea that my focus was split mm-hmm I was like, oh, alright. So like basically fired me. And I called my friend that day. Who was also doing that with me.

I was like, Hey man, I just got fired. So I think you're fired too. So we should start an info product. was a way it started because my friend at the time knew really well how to build online clothing brands. So I was like, you know how to do this? I just learned how to do the sales, the marketing, all this stuff by watching this company do it.

I have a good idea of it. Let's go. And you just teach this stuff and you help the clients. And he's like, all right. And then you spend the next 33 months with that exact. Where at the end, he was leading the product department. I was leading the marketing department. So it's interesting where I had that creator that wasn't a digital marketer and I was a digital marketer that didn't necessarily have a skill that could be a creator.

Yep. So we just paired those two together, which I know we're gonna get in this later, but ultimately led me to actually start consulting label because I was talking with Sam ovens again, and he pointed out that exact thing. He was pointing out. There's a lot of digital marketers that love digital marketing and they see selling courses as a vehicle to get to seven figures.

But they don't have anything to teach themselves. So they end up teaching a course on how to sell courses. Mm-hmm right. And they have coaches, teaching coaches how to be coaches, which is a very weird ancestral model that no one likes and from the outside looking in is very, very weird.

Bryan McAnulty: Exactly. I think one of the kind of problems of the industry and why, like, why I'm doing this podcast here, because that it shows there's not enough knowledge and education yet in knowing how to launch your own product as a creator.

Ryan Mathews: Absolutely. Yeah. So with that, when Sam pointed out to me, I was like, oh, that's true. And he pointed out that, like, it's such a, a great model because there's so many people that are Creator's that don't want to market, don't know how to market and they just love what they do. And that's honestly why they're so good at it.

Right. So what I've kind of started doing with consulting label is finding these great founders with great products, but they don't necessarily have the marketing and you know, all the different processes in places, scale that to seven figure. And then I come in and act as kind of their virtual CMO in that process and help them scale really quickly.

So what were the two questions you asked as far as, like, what would you,

Bryan McAnulty: so yeah, I mean, that's the first part. Yeah. The next part is so like if a Creator's starting out now, what would you say that they do in, in summary to get to their first a hundred thousand before we go into like growing it to seven figure.

Ryan Mathews: To get to your first hundred thousand. I mean, it's, it's a game of promotion for sure. Considering the fact that like, if you're starting, you already have the skills necessary to teach what you're doing. And really optimizing a product, I don't think is super important in that first initial stages.

Right. And if you break these types of businesses down, there's really three core component parts. That lead to sales, right? One is eyeballs or awareness, right? So that's some way to drum up attention and then you have, you know, a funnel or what I like to call a conversion machine that takes those eyeballs and turns 'em into prospects.

Right. Because when they come here, they're total strangers. Right. And now you're turning 'em into someone that's actually. Interested to some extent to be willing to buy your offering. Right? So you're pushing into their pain, you're pushing into the pleasure and you're drumming up interest and you have a way to, you have to have a way to close them.

Right? So whether that's a sales call, you're closing on automated webinar or a sales page, some way to do those three things. Right. So I think focusing on those three and breaking it down of like, okay, right now, where's my bottle. Well, I've only taken two calls over the past month. So my bottleneck right now is either jumping up eyeballs, right.

Or turning them into sales calls. If that's the type of process you're running, running a sales call funnel and you just break it down. Right. So like, if it's like, Oh, I've had 2000 people, you know, come to my, my video sales letter, if that's what you're running. And only two book calls then. Okay. We know this video sales letter is the problem.

So let's work on that. So I think you break it down in those three parts and just figure out what the bottleneck is, and then just keep fixing it and getting better at it. And also just modeling after other people that I've worked really well in your same ministry. Great.

Bryan McAnulty: So then let's say. The Creator's at six figures.

Now what happens in the process to get to seven figures? What has to change?

Ryan Mathews: It depends, man, because I think, I think it's the same game of jumping up awareness, turning those, those people. Really prospects and then closing them. But with that being said, it is just that the whole process is a game of bottleneck, right?

Like what is the bottleneck and how do we fix it? So for me personally, I can speak to that. I didn't get stuck at a hundred thousand. I got stuck right around, like my first year, first real in business. First, real year in business as an info product company. We did around, I wanna say 500, 600,000 in cash.

And then the following year, so that was doing, we started that year at $30,000 a month. Ended it around going between 40 to 60 with our highest month, I think being 70 and the biggest change that led us to get from there to the following year, we did 1.6 million in sales or cash collected over 2 million revenue.

Was a few different things. One was raising our price and two was spending more on ads, right. So was just drum up eyeballs and then having a way to convert those at a little bit higher ticket to increase those margins as well as optimizing our sales team more. Right. So our sales team towards the tail end of 2020 had kind of gone down a little bit.

Their conversion rates were going down. And that was the biggest bottleneck. So it was really all three of the aspects. Definitely getting enough awareness. And then also just being able to close those people. But to answer your question, I used to get this advice all the time from people like Alex, Becker, Sam Evans, Cole, Gordon, who they would look at my, my business.

They'd say like, oh, what you need to do is just solve your bottleneck. I was like, but what is my bottleneck? Like, that's so hard to see because it really is when you're in the weeds, looking at. But that's truly like the way you do it is you figure out what the bottleneck is and then you solve it. There was a few to go a little bit deeper though.

There's a few main kind of belief switches that had to happen going from six to seven figures. And I just mean that in the sense of something like this, where I was spending around $30,000 a month on ads, right. To make back 90. Right. Which is a pretty good return. And every time I tried to bump it up a little bit, the profit went down and I couldn't really handle.

So I'd bump it right back down and the profit would go back to where it was and I felt good again. And I was talking to Cole Gordon, who, if you don't know, who do you know who Cole Gordon is? Yep.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. But yeah, you could mention quick for the rest of our audience. So,

Ryan Mathews: yeah, so he's just, he's in the, in the same space, you know, Courses coaching consulting.

He's skilled to like 25 million a year in two years. He does sales training for both sales reps and for consulting companies, training of sales teams. So I was working with him at the time and I was showing him kind of, you know, everything we were doing, we were stuck around 60, 70, $90,000 a month. And I really wanted to get to a hundred, right?

That's like the, you know, the dream outcome that everyone in this space wants to get to. And I had been trying for a couple years struggling to ever break past that ceiling. Like we got so close, but just couldn't do it. And we were on a call. I was like, Hey man, like, what do you think I should do? And he was like, just spend more on ads.

And I was like, what do you like every time I try and spend more ads, my profit goes down. Like I'm not gonna spend more on ads and flashing back two months prior, Sam had told me the same thing and I was like, I'm not gonna spend more on ads. But now since Cole had told me. I was like, well, maybe there's something to this.

And he was like, just literally double your ad spend for six or for 30. And I was like, that's like an extra $30,000 a month, which is like, that's our profit, right? Like, that's insane. He's like, just do it, like, just do it. It's just do it. I was like, all right. So I doubled my ad spend. We spent 60,000 ish the next month on ads.

And we literally went from 90 to 150,000. And then the following month, we got to 200,000 with only 6,000 more Aspen. We spent 66,000 back 200,000. So it goes back to that first question you asked me and I answer with mentorship. Being willing to listen and just like, Hey, this person's made 25 million this year.

I've made a million. They probably know a lot more than me. Right. And just taking that advice.

Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Well, one of the things that I usually tell, especially new Creator's, because I think like ads are intimidating, especially if you're not the digital marketer. And it's really easy if you don't really invest in it and learn about it to just pour money.

And so I think for most new Creator's, if you're, you're still getting to that six figure, mark, even just forget about ads and, and work on partnerships, affiliates organic growth, other methods of growth. Would you say you agree with that?

Ryan Mathews: I think it depends on the person and their unique skill sets and who they.

Like what they're doing. I had the privilege of at the sales company, I was running some Facebook ads for my own, like bringing leads for myself,

Bryan McAnulty: I guess. I mean, yeah. Spending. Yeah. I agree with that. I guess. I mean, let's say this, this particular persona, they've never touched ads. They've never seen Facebook ads, Google ads, any of that?

Ryan Mathews: I think so. I mean, yeah, I think so. I think it depends on ultimately how quick they wanna scale too. Right? Cause I, I am a big proponent. Mastering both organic and ads, cuz I do think organic is a longer play. Right? And it's ultimately like the businesses that I've seen that are the most profitable and healthy and long term, they know how to drum up a community of people and you know, make it, whether it's grow on YouTube or whatever it may be.

So I think that's a very valuable skill. It should be started from day one. I, the piece of advice I always give is say you're getting to a hundred thousand. I would one like for what, what I did is I just went through. Different, you know, some course that taught me ads right? At the time it was Sam Evans on Facebook ads, which is way outdated now.

But I went through Sam Evan's course and part of that was on Facebook ads. And I just, again, watched what he said, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And he said, start with an initial budget. So we got a couple sales on our program and we set, sorry, $1,500. I was like, I am willing to lose his $1,500.

right. I'm willing to lose it. Let's test with this. So we set a hundred dollars a day for 15 days. And then by the end of the 15 days, we're getting sales and the next month we spent $5,000 in ads and turned it into 30. Right. So I think if whatever, you're, you're testing with, as long as you're willing to lose that, there's not really much, you know, like that's, it's just part of the game, right?

Yeah. So I do think it's a skill you should learn. You know, at some point, but yeah, I mean, if they can get to a hundred thousand by doing JVs and affiliates and organic, that's a great play too. I like that

Bryan McAnulty: if long term it's best to master both organic and the paid ads. And so you're gonna start eventually at some point.

So as long as you're comfortable with the idea that the amount you're willing to invest, you're comfortable with losing. I like that. Yeah. Great. All right. So with your business consulting label, you help grow online education businesses. It seems like one of the, the main services is the done for you YouTube.

Why YouTube that specifically?

Ryan Mathews: Well, I have done both Facebook and YouTube and there's a few different reasons why I like YouTube over Facebook for this type of company. The most simplest is Facebook is just very, very annoying with what you can and can't say, right? Like they just flag certain words.

Like you use the word system and. You can't say that ads is approved and you get banned. Right. And I'd spent around a hundred thousand dollars on a, on ads. And then one day I woke up and all my ads were shut down and I was like, I'm not even gonna try to get all these back. I'm just going to YouTube. Cuz I I'd already thought about it for a while.

Mm-hmm and then I went, spent million dollars on YouTube and had literally no problems with getting disapproved. Right. So that was awesome. Past that typically in the funnels that we're sending these people to, they have long form videos, right? Whether it's a video sales letter. A webinar or whatever it may be.

And to get someone from scrolling on Instagram to then go watch a 30 minute hour long, two hour long video is a really hard ask, but to get someone that's on YouTube, watching videos to go watch a different video is not as hard of a transition. That's number two. And then number three, the targeting that allows you to do for an education based offer is far superior in my opinion, because you can target people that are actively searching.

To learn what you teach. Right? So if you teach YouTube ads, for instance, you can literally target how to run YouTube ads and put all your ads on that, you know, initial keyword. So those would be the few reasons I would say. Well, yeah, that's great.

Bryan McAnulty: Good points. What would you say are some maybe common misconceptions about running YouTube ads?

Ryan Mathews: That's a good question. I feel like one that I've heard a few different times is. The two I've heard a few different times is one. You have to be, you know, this media person, this influencer to be good at 'em candidly, I was not good at them when I started at all. Right. And they still worked and I just got better and better and better.

And it's a skill that anybody can learn. Secondly, for some reason I've heard that you need, you know, outrageous budgets to be able to be profitable with them. And if you don't have a hundred thousand dollars to start, then don't start it. Which I just don't agree with at all. So I'd probably say those two.

Oh, and a third one. This is probably very controversial in the internet marketing space is that high production doesn't work as well as low production. And I've just seen that high production works very, very well. I've seen low production work, low production work work well too, but me personally, I've seen high production outperform, low production on my own ads.

Bryan McAnulty: So interesting as both of them. I also wanna go into just a little bit of a, a point. I just happen to know. On your Instagram page. And I think a reel you did maybe talking about how copy is maybe not as important as some people think in a YouTube bag. Can you go into that a little bit?

Ryan Mathews: Yeah. So my friend asked me why most people's ads suck, right?

I was like, we should make a video about this. So we made a video about how body language tonality and the words you actually speak are all vital points of your copy. And there's been different psychology professors that have written books on it. This guy, Albert me wrote highlight messages and he outlined this rule called the 7 38 55 rule saying that only 7% of the way we communicate motion and what we're communicating.

Is through this spoken word while 38% is body language. And I believe 55% is tonality. Those might be switched, but regardless a lot is communicated outside of what you're saying, right. Like if I go outside right now and tell my wife that I love her and I'm like, I love you. She's not really gonna feel it.

Right. But if like, I love you, then she's gonna feel that a lot more. Right. So it's not that copy doesn't matter, cuz it definitely does. But it's just one of, kind of the three pieces inside of that puzzle of making great ads. Right. And that learning tonality was one of the biggest things that ultimately helped me get really good at marketing and ads and, and video.

So just a very important part.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. I, I think that is important. So let's say like, if someone's gonna go out and start an ad campaign and they're gonna do a YouTube, a. They want to let's say optimize their video. Like they realize, okay, I may have to test a couple different ads, a couple different variations of my video.

How many, like single variations of a single idea would you say are worth testing before somebody says, okay, well, I'm gonna give up on try a completely different angle.

Ryan Mathews: So the biggest. Really difference maker in a YouTube, a as you'd probably assume is the hook, right? It's the first five seconds. So what I do now, when I launching a YouTube.

Is I make three hooks, right? So if I'm paying a videographer, I make three hooks and then one body, right? So the body being everything from five seconds on. So we'll film one ad in, in entirety with one hook and then we'll just, you know, spend another minute saying two more hooks off the cusp, and then we'll launch all three.

So my best ad, I followed that framework where had three different hooks and one body, and one literally outperformed the others by a long shot that one added maybe over a million dollars while the other one's. Maybe tens of thousands. Right. And there's just the difference of the hook. Everything else was the same.

If you're launching, I would recommend probably doing closer to five hooks with maybe two bodies. So now you got 10 different variations. Before they give up. It's hard. A lot of it is probably intuition based. Like I've just spent so much on YouTube. I can kind of just look at it and tell what the problem is.

Right? Cuz it is a metric thing, right? Like if your view rate is really good, but your CTR, your click three rate is bad. This is probably bad for your audience. I'm like talking all these techno. No, it's fine.

Bryan McAnulty: Like it's important to get to the point to, to realize that like you have to understand these numbers.

You have to spend enough to begin, to have some understanding of like, oh, this number. Way worse than what I had at this other time or, or it's way better. So now I know I'm onto something.

Ryan Mathews: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I recently made a video on like the key metrics for each stage and what they are, so you can check that out if you want to.

But once you know that and you kind of look at like, okay, the view rate's bad. And the click through rate is good or vice versa, then you can kind of figure out what the problem is, right. Based on what each metric means. And you might say like, alright, You know, because every rate's good and the click theory rate is, is bad.

I'm gonna remake this ad, but all I'm gonna do is add 45 seconds. I'm just gonna sell that click a little bit harder, add in a few extra testimonials and just really encourage them to click. Right. And then see what, what it improves. So it just depends. But at the end of the day, all that really matters is how much are you spending and how much are you making?

Right. Like all the other metrics are basically just diagnostic tools to, to figure out what's not working. Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned all of it though, because. In my experience talking with so many people who have some interest in running ads, but haven't yet, I feel like the biggest misconception is that they think that they make the ad and then.

They think it's everything else other than the ad that determines kind of the success? Well is my, my funnel, my landing page, all that. Good enough. But if the ad is, is so bad that no one actually goes through, then it doesn't work. Right? So I think most people underestimate maybe how many variations or how, how big a difference a variation of your ad can actually make.

And like you said, like changing just the hook can actually completely change the profitability of the ad. Totally. Absolutely. so any other insights you can give into maybe the process of if a Creator's saying like, okay, I'm ready to try out some YouTube ADSS. And then what, what would you say that looks like from a high level view?

You have the ad, and then you mentioned usually you're going to a VSL, a webinar, and then to a purchase page. Can you give any more details of like what the ideal overview of a setup should.

Ryan Mathews: As far as the sales funnel. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the two that I've seen work extremely well inside of this industry is the VSL funnel, meaning an add to a landing page to, you know, 30 ish minute, 10 to 30 minute video that pushes 'em to a call and then they're on a call and then they get close on the call.

That I think is the simplest, the easiest. Formula for success inside the industry. The other one is the automated webinar funnel. I've never liked this one personally, cuz it's extremely hard to do. I think you have to have a, you know, much better offer, much more appealing offer has to be willing to go or able to go mass market and that's figure a lower ticket.

Like. $2,000 less courses. And then on the phone, obviously you can go much higher than that. So those, the two that I think work really well, I like if a client came to me and they wanted like my advice on it, the only reason I would ever go with automated webinar. Is if it was really like a hot offer that I just thought had a ton of potential.

And it was just a really easy sell. I would do that. Right. I have a couple friends that have made tens of millions of dollars with the automated webinar, because their course is just so unique. Right. So it's not so saturated, so they can do that extremely well, but they also work extremely hard to make that VSL or that webinar.

like just amazing. The copy is just flawless and the offer is just flawless.

Bryan McAnulty: So, yeah. Cool. Yeah, I like that. So to summarize the, the automated webinar, if, if you can put the time and resources into it, but you're always, you're always collecting the email front, right? So you collect the email and then they go into either the webinar or to a call or VSL for the call.

And then that the automated webinar is typically the lower ticket. So like up to, I think you said like $2,000 or less, and then the call is for higher ticket. So like $2,000 and up.

Ryan Mathews: Yeah. I mean, I started with a call funnel at a thousand dollars. We liked that. And then we tried to switch to, I made webinar.

This is back in 2019 and it did not work very well. We were like struggling to make profit, cuz it's just a harder game. Like anything, if anything breaks, if your email stopped delivering, if you know, you're not completely on point in that webinar, you're done. So over the course, like three months, I think I filmed like 15 different two hour long webinar.

Just literally testing and testing and testing and testing to the point where I got to February of 2020 and was, we were not profitable that month. We made like $25,000, but we had spent more than we made. And I was like, this is not good. So we ended up going back to that VSL funnel, doing that. And then we've got to 40, the next month with great profit to 50 to 60.

And we just were able to scale a lot faster when we got back to that automated or that VSL funnel instead of the automated.

Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. I, I think a good takeaway is that I also notice a lot of people have either they're not comfortable with, or they just don't enjoy the idea of being live or, or talking to somebody or they think it's not necessary.

They think like, oh, it can all be automated. And I would say that like your point about if one thing goes wrong with the automated system, then like, you're, you could be losing so much from that. So. I would encourage anybody that if you, if you don't feel that you're ready to devote the time and become an expert at that of making this automated webinar, then either having the, the call final idea.

Even if your product, maybe isn't as high ticket. Or having a live webinar because then like anything that gives you an opportunity to somehow interact with the pro prospect, then if something goes wrong and somebody says, oh, I can't check out. Or, oh, this is, this is weird. It gives you the opportunity to address that.

And even by saying, oh, Hey, I can help you with this. That usually gives the person the confidence to actually buy. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. All right. So apart from what we've discussed Could you come up, I guess, with any single piece of advice you would give readers out there listening who wanna grow?

Ryan Mathews: Who wanna grow their revenue, their, their profit?

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah.

Ryan Mathews: Let me think about this for a second.

There's so many things you could say, right? Cause like each. Integral part of this, whether it's making better ads or writing better emails, like all those obviously matter. And we've obviously already gone over kind of, how do you develop those skills, right. Of going to people who have already kind of seen the results that you wanna see and just kind of figuring out their system and using it past that, I would say.

It's the best people in the industry just don't accept mediocracy as a standard. Right? Like they don't accept the fact that like their ads are just okay. Right. And I've seen this time and time again where great people really master one thing before they move on to the next. Right. And like, I have a friend who runs an Amazon FBA course.

They do eight figures. He makes 20 million plus dollars a year on. Great guy. And I heard, I heard him talk about this before, where he was talking about how like, people were like, why aren't you doing this? Right. Why, why aren't you working on this right now? He's like, because I haven't got good enough of this other thing that I'm working on.

There's still juice to be squeezed out of this. I think that's a very, just great character trait to have that you like want to get really good at each integral part before you get shiny object syndrome and move on to the next, right. So like, just really focus on mastering. How do I make this funnel really good?

Like, how do I bump this? You know, this video conversion rate up, how do I get better on the sales call? Right. How do I take my conversion rate on the sales call from 20 to 30%? Like those are the needle movers. It's typically the boring work, right? The things that you probably would be doing if you needed to make money tomorrow, right.

You'd work harder on those things today. So that's probably my boring, my boring answer.

Bryan McAnulty: No, I like that. I would add to it that it's a good way to kind of describe that some people have the kind of sense that like, okay, I, I did this thing, I have these ads it's kind of profitable and like, that's that, but it's, it's good to have the mindset that you're talking about because you're looking into how everything can always be improved.

And I think as a, as a creator, as a digital marketer, that's super important because. The product that you launch, like that may not be the super successful product. And like, that's it you're done with life. Like generally, like the life of a entrepreneur is one of constantly releasing these other products, making tweaks, making improvements.

And so whatever is your like present moment as an entrepreneur, realize that you can make adjustments to improve things, realize that you can release other products in the future and continue to grow. Mm. Absolutely. That's a good point. Cool. All right. So I have one more question for you on the show, if we'd like to ask every guest, if they have any questions for the audience.

So if you could ask anything to our audience, anything you're curious about anything you want them to think about? What would that be?

Ryan Mathews: Yeah, the thing I would ask is what would you do if you knew you couldn't. I asked that question because last year that was a question. I asked myself a lot, which ultimately led me to sell my company and start consulting label.

Because I just realized like, ultimately when I looked 10 to 20 years down the road, what I was currently doing, wasn't what I was doing then. And it wasn't even on the trajectory path of getting me there. So a lot of times I think we don't do what we actually want to do in business or in our career, whatever, because we're scared of failing.

So what would you do if you couldn't fail and then what would it take to not fail at that? Might open up some interesting thoughts for you.

Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Yeah. That's a great, great question. All right. Well, Ryan, before we get going, where can people find you online?

Ryan Mathews: I mean, I'm on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, you can go to my website consulting label.com.

Check me out there. All right.

Bryan McAnulty: Awesome. Thanks so much, Ryan.

Ryan Mathews: Yeah, it was fun.

Bryan McAnulty: If you enjoyed this interview and won the chance to ask questions to our guests live tune in on Tuesdays when new episodes premiere on the Heights Platform, Facebook page, to learn more about the show and get notified when new episodes release, check out the Creator's Adventure dot com until then keep learning and I'll see you in the next episode.