Bryan McAnulty: Welcome to the Creator's Adventure, where we interview Creator's from around the world, hearing their stories about growing a business. My name is Bryan McAnulty. I'm the founder of Heights Platform. And today I'm talking with Catherine Watkin about how Creator's can feel more comfortable selling themselves without compromising their values and how practice and selling one to one can make it easier to sell one to many with your online courses and memberships in the future.

Hey everyone. We're here today with Catherine Watkin. The UK's leading expert in authentic and heart centered sales after a highly successful 20 year career in sales. Catherine now helps business owners who are gifted and passionate about what they do, but struggle in business because they feel awkward about using traditional sales methods.

Catherine teaches how to sell in a way that feels authentic and comfortable. So entrepreneurs can grow a business while still feeling true to their values. Catherine, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. So to start off, can you tell us a little bit about what you do and how you got started with your online?

Catherine Watkin: Well, what I do. So my business, as you said, it's called selling from the heart. And for the past decade, I've had an online course called get more clients saying yes, which is all about helping heart centered business owners who want to get clients without compromising their values to enroll their first few paying clients.

So it's sort of a bit of a start to finish, but including the entire sales process and sales conversations in detail. And then in more recent years in the last four years, I've also developed a membership. So I've also got a membership site called business from the heart where I help people with their business in a broader sense.

So we're expanding out to look at marketing and business models and business growth and all that sort of thing. And actually what it was the question of how I got started is an interesting one because when I started my business, I wasn't really thinking in online terms, you know, I wasn't from this online world, like a lot of us are not, and I started out running workshops one day live workshops in central London, teaching coaches and consultants and healers and people how to sell from the heart.

And of course it didn't really work like as in it worked and people had a great time, but there were two problems with it. One was that I was just making no money. So I was charging. It was a low amount for the workshop. I didn't know what I now know about designing the business model in order to turn that into further sales.

And by the time I'd paid for the venue and then I'd gone 50 50 on the partners, I would partner with people to help me to fill them. I was working hard and I was making like, literally just hundreds of pounds. No, no more than that. The other, the other thing about it as well, which, which is what prompted me to move to online was I applied to be in a mentoring program, run by a business guy that I really respected and wanted to learn from.

And he said that he wouldn't have me. He said that what I was doing. Was purely entertainment. He said, that's all you're providing. You're providing entertainment. People are coming to you for a whole day. And they're having a really great day and they're filling their notebook with notes and they're going home and it's not changing anything about their business or their lives.

And it was a real. Like moment for me. I didn't really see it at first, but I then went off from that and I turned that one day workshop into an eight week online course with one module a week and a week for implementation and a Q and a call to support them with implementation. And I drip feed it over eight weeks and people often don't like that, but I've seen that when people sit down and binge watch it in one day, They don't get the results.

And so that's how my online course came to be the frustration of not managing to make this offline model work combined with me being challenged. That, that, without an ongoing course, it wasn't making enough of a difference. Oh, that's really

Bryan McAnulty: interesting. So that kind of. Motivated you to feel that you, you wanna make sure you can really prove that you're gonna get a result for your customers?

Catherine Watkin: Yeah, because actually for, for many of us who go into creating courses in this online space, We're not doing it because of the dream of sipper cocktail on the beach in Bali and watch the money land in your bank account without doing anything. We're actually Mo a lot of us are very motivated by service and helping, and we need to see the results.

And I did have a year, quite a few years ago, I had a year where I was selling the course, but I wasn't providing any support. I was just selling it as a one off course. And what I found was I wasn't. Witnessing and experiencing the, the, the direct results. I wasn't getting the emails from people saying, wow, you know, this has really changed everything for me.

And I realized that for me personally, I need to build in more support from me so that people have got that sense of. Um, being in some sort of a container, which means they're more likely to get results. And I know that, you know, with a course platform like you have, you can build things into that course platform to help with the engagement and the learning.

But I didn't have that when I started, I mean, I started with my course just on my website on a password protected page. So there was, there wasn't anything to keep people glued in. Like, like you'd have on an e-learning.

Bryan McAnulty: Sure. Yeah. Well, I'm really glad to hear that actually, because like, what you're describing is also like the reason that we built our platform in the first place, seeing that like there's online marketers out there who become, they get to the point that they're really good at selling something.

They can make money with it. But at the end of the day, if you can't actually provide that result, that you're promising to your students. What is your, your course or your program or your service really worth. And if, as a creator, as you said, like you, you feel good about, you don't wanna just keep earning money, but you wanna be able to make an impact on people and teach what it is that you have to share.

And you want to ideally in the long run, it is gonna help you make more money too, because if people can get that. Then they they're successful. They can buy more from you in the future versus they buy something from you never do anything about it. And. Just kind of go away.

Catherine Watkin: Yeah, absolutely. It's a huge sense of fulfillment to see that your work actually makes a difference.

And also, you know, I have a very strong referral network. A lot of my people who've done my courses and, and membership. When I open up for enrollment, they refer their friends and it's, it's exactly, it's about, you know, it's a really good percentage of where people come from is from recommendations from other people who've done the course.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. So we noticed on your website, you mentioned that the journey that led you to find this fulfilling work, that you started your career in a corporate sales job, then you traveled the world. You got certified as a yoga teacher, a nutritional therapist, NLP practitioner, hypnotherapist, and a coach.

How did all these different experiences kind of lead you to that true calling of art centered sales?

Catherine Watkin: Ah, it was so interesting because when I left the corporate world, there were two things that I knew I would never do. Again. One was, I was, I said, I was never gonna wear a suit. And to this day that's been true.

And the other was, I'm not going to work in sales. I'm not gonna have anything to do with sales. And that's because for me, coming from corporate, I was still associating sales with, with a particular sort of approach an ethos. And so the last thing on my radar was sales. So I went off and I studied.

Acupuncture and yoga and meditation and energy healing and nutritional therapy and hypnotherapy and all of those things desperately trying to find this thing that it is that I'm here to do to find my purpose. And I didn't find it. And actually when I finally came full circle and ended up starting to teach workshops to teach people how to sell authentically and from the heart, I realized that all of that learning.

It came together because I really understood the customers that I was trying to help. I'd been there. I'd been there standing in my half empty yoga class. I had been the nutritional therapist, overwhelmed with the idea of everything that I needed to keep up with in order to stay an expert. I'd been the hypnotherapist, not quite knowing how I was gonna find my clients.

And so I. I really understand where they, where they're at, which means I can meet people where they're at. And, and I think that that makes me a good teacher. Cause I'm almost teaching from that empathy.

Bryan McAnulty: That's awesome. Point. Yeah. . Yeah. So you've actually, you've done those things. You feel like you've experienced those things and now that's led you to the point where now you're, you're able to truly offer the, the service that you do today because of those experiences.

Yeah. Yeah. So I want to get into, like, what exactly do you mean when you talk about art centered sales? Like what's the difference between art centered sales and more traditional selling Techniques

Catherine Watkin: oh, well, there's, I, I guess for me, there's, there's two differences. So there is like a values based difference around the whole energy and intention behind the sales approach, but there's also.

Very practical differences. The way that I teach sales is on a practical level, very different to traditional sales approaches. So the energy and intention of it is all about coming from a place of service, truly wanting to make a difference to others. Um, putting what's best for the potential customer at the center of the interaction.

So what's best for them, not what's best for me and my bank balance. And I think that. that sort of intention is one of the big differences. And then on a very practical level, you know, I don't, I don't teach closing techniques, for example, because for me, the idea of closing the sale is just inherently one-sided.

And self-serving the idea that, Hey, it suits me that you are gonna buy from me. So I'm gonna make you do the thing that I need you to do to serve me today. I don't teach objection handling techniques because they can come across as argumentative. And that's, that's quite off-put for a customer. And I, instead, what I teach is if you take people through a process, so I teach a process called the seven steps to yes, for authentic sales conversations and that if you structure your sales process and your.

Conversation. And that conversation can be two-way in a one-to-one setting, but it can be a one to many conversation. Say I do a lot of sales through webinars and challenges and Facebook live videos and things that in that conversation you are, you are taking your client on a journey where you are getting to listen and understand them.

But most importantly, You're coming to be able to, to communicate. So this is one of the big things about the approach is that it's, it's the business owner's responsibility to communicate clearly to the customer. Why buying from you is a good thing. And when you can really clearly communicate, this is why this is valuable.

This is the difference it's gonna make to you. This is why I believe you should consider doing it. If you can articulate and describe it really well in that way. You don't need closing techniques because you can trust that your customer is able to make their own mind up, but they can only make their mind up if they've got the information to use to do that.

And a lot of business owners are not very good at giving the customer the information they need in order to be able to make their mind up.

Bryan McAnulty: That's great. So could you give an example then of like, what's a way that you could sell a product or service. This technique of heart centered sales.

Catherine Watkin: So if I'm looking at a one to one, then there's a, a process that starts you.

Um, there's a, there's a seven step process that I teach. And it's almost the feeling of it is that the customer and the business owner are. Like in partnership, but in collaboration, not one of them pursuing the other. And there's a series of questions. I don't teach scripts, but it's a series of questions that effectively takes the customer on a journey.

And you can do this one to many as well, but it's a slightly different technique. So I'll stick with, with the one to one for now. And what that does is it helps you as the business owner, understand what it. That they need, what are they struggling with? What's brought them to look at your course as a potential option.

Um, what, what is the impact that their problem or struggle is having on them? Um, what will the impact be if they don't do anything about it? How would they want things to be in an ideal world? If, if your course was to do everything they want, what would the outcome for them be. Um, how committed are they to actually doing something about this?

And it's a process through which, and this is actually why I, I, I teach that. I really think it's important that people hone their sales skills one to one first, because if you don't do it one to one, you don't learn from a variety of different customers. Worries, concerns, desires, wants needs, and all of that.

And so how can you translate that into a really powerful. Webinar or sales page or presentation that's designed to broadcast to like hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people at once. So, and then once you've asked those questions, two things happen. One, the customer themselves is going on their own internal mental journey where they're really.

Connecting in with why they are looking for help and the difference it could make to them. So you're taking them on an emotional internal journey, but you, as the person doing the selling is also learning about them. What do they need to hear? Do you really feel you are the right person to help them? Can you hand on heart truly say that you believe that that buying your course is the best decision that they could possibly make?

And if you do believe that. You know, heart centered. Isn't about wishy-washy heart centered is about service. So if you believe that that person will benefit from your course, it's like making a really clear recommendation. You know, I recommend that you, that you do this course, these are the reasons why outline the reasons, the benefits, link it back to what they've told you that they want and need and are struggling with use language that's similar to the language that they're using.

So they can TA hear that you've understood them. Present and describe your course, tell them the price and then very, very importantly, ask them if they want to go ahead and buy it. Um, in a one to many sales situation, that would be the call to action. And I prefer to always, I always prefer to use language that gives people the option.

I think nobody likes being told what to do and nothing winds people up more than being told, say on a webinar, Hey, go and buy this thing now. Hey, go over there and sign up. I love using language that gives people the option. You know, if you were to, and you might, you know, I'd love to invite you to and give people that sense that they have that agency.

And they're not just being told what to do and then ask for a decision and, and then don't be afraid to challenge and explore and be curious if somebody's not buying from you and you really hand on heart, believe they should be. Don't be afraid of being pushy. Don't be afraid of having that conversation with them that will.

Um, and asking those more, maybe more difficult, more challenging, more searching questions to help them to overcome any concerns, any resistance that they've got. And there is a fine balance, you know, I say, oh, don't, don't worry about being pushy. Yes. You do have to worry about being pushy. Cuz a lot of people accidentally come across as pushy when they don't mean to.

So again, there's phrases and there's approaches and that there's things that you can do within your sales. Conversations, both one to one and one to many that allow you to be very clear and confident and solid that you have absolute conviction that buying your course is the right thing. But at the same time, not come across as pushy and

Bryan McAnulty: grasping.

Sure. Yeah. I think there's a lot of really great information there. So. As a creator, you don't have to feel like sales means that you have to try to, to trick someone or, or, or talk them into to buying something that they wouldn't have otherwise bought. It's more of, as you're describing it, this process of this journey and discovery that you're both going on together to figure out is, is this relationship one that makes sense for both of us to get value from it and the way that sounds like you're describing it.

And if you ask the right questions to your prospect, You're actually providing value to them just from their own kind of like introspection and like thinking of what you're asking them, that that can be valuable for them to think of like, well, why do I want this? What, what do I need to get to? And so the, the sales conversation that some people would think has to be pushy and, and tricking someone into something can actually be something where you're providing just direct value to that potential client.

And then. If it gets to the point that you really believe that you have the best solution for them, then it's, it doesn't really feel like selling anymore to, to offer it to them. Because you know, in, in yourself that this is what you believe is gonna be good for them. And then if you've spent all this time and you believe in that, then it's kind of like your duty to say like, well, Hey, I have this, this product, this service, this course.

Um, I think this would be the solution.

Catherine Watkin: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the interesting thing is that from, to the, from the customer's point of view, when sales is done really well, really well in a very supportive way and a very respectful way. It's still sales because as the salesperson, you still need to be focusing on that end outcome.

Um, and if you do feel that that this would be a good thing for the person, there is this, this focus and the conversation is all leading in the direction of, of them making that decision. But when it's done really well, it doesn't feel like sales to the person who's buying it. It just, it feels like really good service.

So somebody could buy a course from one of your Creator's and walk away from buying the course with not, not with a sense of, oh, I've just been sold to. But a sense of genuine excitement that somebody's listened to them understood what they need communicated, what they've got. And they're like, wow, no, one's, I've never come across anything like this before that says, it's gonna help me in this way.

And it's this sense of excitement and sense of having found a solution and being supported when it's done? Well, it doesn't feel like sales. And if sales feels like sales, it's probably not working very well because nobody likes to be sold to.

Bryan McAnulty: So since our audience is mainly composed of online course, Creator's I think that you're a really great person to offer this sales advice about this. So can you think of a suggestion for like the average online creator that can either help them improve their sales? Or if not, maybe like a common mistake or a misconception that you see?

Catherine Watkin: I think a common mistake that I see is people not having. Enough conviction themselves in the thing that they're offering. I mean, just recently I was reviewing a webinar presentation by a, a, by one of my clients and she's a LinkedIn expert and teacher and she is absolutely superb, like her knowledge and her teaching style and everything it's like world class.

But when it came to the point in her presentation where she was making the offer, the whole energy shifted. There was almost a slight sense of apology in a way for making the offer that there is this sense of. Like, I think one of the most important things that Creator's could do is really believe that the thing they've created has got value because that conviction is actually really infectious.

Like, do you want to buy a course off somebody who doesn't seem to be very confident about it? Or do you want to buy a course off somebody who feels really excited and, and is confident about the thing that they've created. And then if I was gonna give advice to say people who are earlier in their journey with online courses, one piece of advice I would say is don't get too hung up on trying to sell through.

Like don't get tearing up on trying to be a big online marketer before you are like you very well may be one day and you very well may have hundreds or thousands of people coming to your webinar or tens of thousands of people visiting your sales page. But in the early days, we start out with nearly nobody.

And the way that I see a lot of my customers and members of my community getting started is that they create their online course and they reach out to previous customers or people that they already know, and they have one-to-one sales conversations and they start their course with six to eight people in the very first round, but they're up and running.

And they started when I started selling my own course, I actually sold it from speaking. I gave a live talk. In a live room to live people. So I sold it offline. I then did an another talk and I also then took that talk and turned it into a webinar. And I had 20 people go through my online course at the highest I've had 105 go through, but that was quite a number of years later, once I'd built more of an audience myself.

So I think sometimes people see these big online marketers and they have this dream of this digital course with thousands of people going through it. We'll start somewhere and starting somewhere might be a lot more simple and it might be a lot more, even though it's an online course, you might be able to market and sell it offline and find that easier to get going.

Bryan McAnulty: A great point. I wanna also touch on a little bit of what you mentioned earlier of the idea of. Some slight differences in like one to one and one to many sales and how it's kind of good to practice the one to one so that you can do the one to many, a lot better. So one of the things that I think can come up with, especially a new creator is they've built their landing page and they're not intending to do a one-to-one sales.

They're intending that. Hopefully you go, you click the call to action. Then you, you purchase the course. But they're, they're new to the whole thing. And somebody asks them a question and says, Hey, I think maybe this is for me, but I'm not really sure. Can I get on a quick call with you? And yeah, if you are a new creator, I think first of all it's usually good to do that.

Um, Uh, of course like you should value your time, but the experience that you can gain, not only from the, in selling, but also from understanding what your customer, the potential problems are, is super, super valuable. So I'd recommend getting on that call, but I think some Creator's who feel nervous about sales.

It's likely that they get on that call and they might have been this close to having that sale. And then they kind of talk themselves out of it in that, that nervousness and, and uncertainty of how to recede with the client. Um, I guess like what I would say is maybe one of the things that happens too often is people talk too much.

And sometimes the person talking to you your, your prospect really. They just wanted to call you. They kind of just wanna know, like, are you really the person that you said they are? And like, they're, they're going through in their mind right now thinking like, okay, well I think I'm gonna buy this. And they're, they're just going through thinking about if there's any reason that they shouldn't or any other question that they have.

And sometimes, uh, the creator, you might talk too much and you start saying things and you're kind of talking them out of it. Um, unintentionally. So I wonder, do you have any. Other tips or recommendations, like if in that scenario or a creator who they say, okay, well, I'm gonna get on the call with this person.

What, what should they do to ensure that it goes.

Catherine Watkin: Mm, well, actually, you know, one couple of things, one based on what you just said, which is that when, when somebody comes to have a, if somebody's reaching out to have a call, you are absolutely right. They've probably 90% already decided they're going ahead.

They're just looking for that extra reassurance. I've just got a few concerns. I want to have them addressed. Or I just wanna check in that you really are the person that you say you. And so I think that, you know, that talking too much that you reference there it's it's um, that trying too hard. It's it's a nervousness like, oh, someone's here, I've got to sell to them.

And actually, if you can go, oh, here comes someone to ask me a question they've already 90% made their mind up. I've just gotta make sure that I give them that extra 10% and I don't unsell to them and put them off in that moment. The other thing that's really important is, is called the question behind the question.

And when I'm teaching sales teams or people in who are taking like inbound sales inquiries, this is something I teach about a lot because. People will often take the question at face value and just ask, answer the question, but there's always a question behind the question and you need to get to the bottom of what is the question behind the question so that I can answer the real concern.

And so if I give an example of this from my business, one of the questions we get asked often when, when the course is open for enrollment is how long are the module. . And so if somebody doesn't know better, somebody on my support team would reply and say, oh, each one's 90 minutes. , but that's actually not the question, the question.

And we don't know what the question is because we need to find out a little bit more from that person. So we either need to answer the question in two ways, or if it was a one to one conversation, we'd ask another question to get to the bottom of it, because that question, the concern or the question behind that question might be.

Oh, I haven't got much time. Can I really fit this course into my week? But the other concern might be, I've done a lot of courses in the past in their really lightweight am. I really gonna get value for money from this? And so by answering the question 90 minutes, it's not telling them anything. And so it's always like, what's the real question.

What's the real concern. And if you're speaking one to one with somebody don't be afraid to actually ask directly, you know do you. You know, do, do you have any concerns or, you know, what, what concerns or do you have about the course that I could help answer for you? Or even going a bit deeper? If the question seemed to be quite quite light, you might say it's interesting because no, actually, no, you, you wouldn't ask, my brain was going off somewhere then, but actually not so relevant, but yeah, it's that, what's the question behind the question very often.

I'm not forgetting that you don't need to talk and talk and talk. In order to like sort of re reiterate the value of the course. So a really good question to ask is what is it? That is what is it about this course that's prompted you to think about buying it? because if you ask the customer, what is it about this course?

That's prompted you to think about buying it? They will tell you the reasons why they, they are interested in buying it and you can then reconfirm back to them that it will do that thing that they want. So you're like reassuring them again. Um, and another really great question to ask in those one to one conversations, especially if you don't have much time, is.

Where would you need to be in six months from now, or what would have needed to have happened in six months or 12 months from now in order for you to look back and think that buying this course was the best decision you could have made because they will, they will then future pace themselves. in order to create that vision of how things will be after doing the course.

Now, of course, if the answer they give you is completely unrealistic and you are being ethical in sales, then the right thing to do is to tell them that it's not gonna do that for them, but very often it will do that thing. And then you, again, you can reconfirm to them and reassure them that yes, it will.

It is designed to do that. And if you follow the course and you follow the teachings, then you know, there's every likelihood that you will get that outcome that you're looking. .

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah, that's a great point. That's uh, actually the way you reference that question it's kind of similar to the, uh, the Dan Sullivan question where he says like, if, if you and I were to have this conversation and look back I think he says like three years from now, like what would have to ha have happened for you to be happy with the result?

And like, it's such a powerful way to, to ask this question to the prospect, because it's a really valuable question to. because it makes them think to themselves, like, what is it that I actually want and what am I actually trying to accomplish? And going into that conversation, they may have not actually known.

They may have some idea, but when you ask it in that way, it really makes them think, oh, well, okay. Three, three years from now, or in your case, you said like six months from now, whatever that time period is, it makes them think to themselves, like how, like, what do I actually need to do? And what do I actually want from.

And so that question in itself is powerful, but it also informs you of what they're looking for and then, you know, can you help them or not? So it's great. Yeah. All right. Um, so in your online course business, you have courses and you have a membership site and you also offer, I think maybe some private consultations, which one of these business models do you say, or would you say provides the most value to your clients or what's your main focus really?

Catherine Watkin: Oh, you know, I love the, I love the course and I love the membership and they're both amazing. So the online course is an eight week course to help people enroll paying clients from a standing start. And that's amazing because in just eight weeks, people can go from either zero clients to paying clients, or they might have been in business for three or four years, and clients are really hit and miss and they can.

See what they've not been doing and fill in all those gaps. And so I love that course because it gets really quick results over an eight week period, and it's very structured, but then I love my membership because with the membership, people are members, they pay monthly, I've got members, who've been members for three, four years.

It's an ongoing community. They've got access to me whenever they want. Not whenever they want, but they've got access to me daily in the Facebook group and on live calls. I get to know them well over time. It's just a completely different sort of a container. And the membership is beautiful because it's a go at your own pace.

Whereas with the course, sometimes people can have this sense of I've fallen behind. I can't keep up and it can be really stressful. And with the membership, the membership is designed to go at your own pace so that people can. Um, come in. Doesn't matter what stage of business they're at. It doesn't matter what sort of life commitments they've got.

They can come in, they can identify their next milestone and their place on the business pathway that I've created. And they can go from there at their own pace. So I love them both, but I do. I love them both, but the membership really adds. I feel like the membership is almost the thing that I, my heart and soul is in the membership.

I live, I'm living it and breathing it. I wouldn't want to not have the course, cuz I love the course and it's so powerful, but you know, I somehow yeah, the membership is just my, my, my, like my, my, my

Bryan McAnulty: big love. Would you say it's like, because of that engagement that you have with your students because of. I

think

Catherine Watkin: so it's because I live and breathe it.

And with the course I run the course, that's a live course once a year. Okay. And, and I, and I, and I love that and I like taking people through it, but I guess I'm not immersed in it all the time. Whereas with the membership, because it's. it's all the time. And some people would hate this. Like the membership model is not for everybody, but for me, because the membership is on all the time.

I'm always thinking about it, always thinking about it. What do our members need? Oh you know, I'd seen that question in the Facebook group earlier. What. Answer, can I give thinking about improving it? I, I have a community manager in my business who works with me to support the members. So I'm more living and breathing it on a daily basis, I think, which and that some people do not want to live and breathe their delivery of their program on a daily basis.

Some people don't wanna think about it. They just want to run it two or three times a year.

Bryan McAnulty: Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. So one of the things we like to do in this show is have each of our guests ask a question to our audience. So if you could ask anything to our audience, what would that be?

Catherine Watkin: I would ask them, do you find, or do you ever find that you hold back in sales situations or sales conversations, or even avoid sales situations where people are interested in buying from you because you are afraid of coming across as pushy or grasping or self-serving and if you do, what can you do to change.

The way you think about and approach sales so that you can fall in love with it. And then, and therefore be really excited about speaking to your clients and encouraging them to buy from you.

Bryan McAnulty: That's a great question. Yeah, I think I, I hope that from this interview, uh, Creator's who, if you are nervous about sales you can gain something from this to help you feel that there is a way to make it more natural, uh, for you to actually do.

So, let's see, I have one more question about your online course. I think you mentioned that you do a once a year, like enrollment for it. Um, can you go into that a little bit more? Because I think people are always wondering like, okay, I'm gonna make a course. I'm gonna make a membership. Like when do I launch it?

How do I launch it? So you've decided to do this once a year launch. It sounds like why, why did you pick that? Why does that work for you? Um,

Catherine Watkin: I think in the earlier days I was doing twice a year and then I added other programs. I, I, then I then had a period of time where I was doing the course launch and then I had a high ticket business mastermind.

So I would do the course launch. And I, I followed the model. It's a very popular model. I would give a ticket to a one day live event as a bonus with a course, after the course was completed, people would come to the one day live event and then I would sell a high priced business mentorship program for the next 12 months.

And because that 12 months higher end program took so much of my attention and focus, I really only had it in me to run the actual launch of the course once a year. And then after a few years, my heart wasn't really in that anymore. And I switched to a very low priced membership model. So I teach all the same stuff, but I can reach many, many more people with it at once.

And I've continued with that. Um, the course launch once a year and the membership launch twice a year, partly because with the membership, people do leave and you need to launch regularly to top the numbers back up again because every month people will leave and it will, the numbers will, will run down.

But one of the things I have done more recently, and this is a more advanced thing I've been in business for a number of years, this isn't something someone might do straight away is I have now put the course into what's called an evergreen automated funnel. So that in between those live rounds, There is a way for people to buy the course in between, but it doesn't come with the.

But when the, when I do run it, they can come back through that course. So yeah, it's more. And if I only had the course, then I might launch it twice a year. If, if I only had the course and some people have a course and they launch it three times a year and that's all that they do. And I think the, the important thing to know about businesses, that there are no rules and we all get to design this in a way that suits our lifestyle our energy levels as well.

You know, I had. Um, a long term chronic health issue. I had something called me chronic fatigue syndrome. So I have issues with energy levels. So I can't, you know, three launches a year is more than enough. I, I, I wouldn't be able to do any more than that. So everyone, everyone sort of finds their, their balance.

Bryan McAnulty: Great. I think that's the best point actually. Um, because yeah, that's, that's what I hope to kind of get from that question that. Everyone's always curious to know what other Creator's do, but to hear, like, to hear an example is one thing, but it's a great point to say that it doesn't, this doesn't have to be the perfect, uh, strategy for you too.

It's just one strategy that for you, that's what works, but for another creator, there might be something else that fits their business fits their lifestyle that they wanna create a little bit.

Catherine Watkin: and the only way to know is to go out and just start doing stuff. Like, I wouldn't know that launching the course once a year, suits me best if I hadn't launched it more than once a year.

Um, and also as you're in business longer, you start looking for examples. So you have someone like Marie folio who. Launches her big course, and she just launches once a year. And then you have other people who have a course and they launch it four times a year. And then this one person has the low cost membership.

And the next person has the very high ticket group program for less numbers of people. And the only way to know which really feels good for you, I think is to go and start and, and try and experience them because. I've done nearly everything since I started in business. And for me, I've the membership model really is the sweet spot for me in terms of what I love to do most.

Um, then I know people who would hate to have a membership.

Bryan McAnulty: Yeah. Yeah. I think if you're listening to this and you're not sure I think it's really important to stress. Like don't. Don't let yourself get held back by thinking like, oh, well now I have to, I didn't think about a membership. Maybe I should think about a membership now don't let yourself get held back by like the overwhelm of all those ideas.

It's better to just try something and realize like the journey of a creator. It's not just you have this one product and then that's it. You're done. It is this constant evolution of your products and improving them and changing them and figuring out what is really the best thing for your particular audience and your particular business and life.

Yeah. Great. All right. Well that is all the questions I have for you today, Catherine. Um, but before we get going, where can people find you online? If they wanna learn more? so

Catherine Watkin: my main online home is my website. I do have the usual social media, the Instagram and the Facebook, but my website is at selling from the heart.com.

And if people go over there, the seven steps to yes. Process for an authentic sales conversation that I mentioned, people can sign up to get that. Free it's a video series. It's seven very, very short videos that teach people that step by step process for an authentic sales conversation. So anyone who's been really interested and that can then be applied to selling one to many is a slightly different process, but it's a really good way to get started with how to think about and how to approach sales.

Alright. Awesome.

Bryan McAnulty: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Catherine Watkin: Thank you very much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Bryan McAnulty: If you enjoyed this interview and want the chance to ask questions to our guests live tune in on Tuesdays when new episodes premier on the Heights Platform, Facebook page, to learn more about the show and get notified when new episodes release, check out the Creator's Adventure dot com until then keep learning and I'll see you in the next episode.