Bryan McAnulty [00:00:00]:

If you think that public speaking is a talent only a few lucky people have, I have a story that will change your mind. Heather Morrison used to hate speaking in front of a crowd, but today she's a renowned public speaking coach, an award winning theater artist, and a broadcaster. On her Instagram page, Heather inspires over a 100000 people with her tips for overcoming fears of public speaking and becoming more confident. Today, she's going to share her secrets with us as well.

Heather Morrison [00:00:23]:

If you have a fear of showing up on a social media platform or doing a webinar, one of your blocks may be that you are afraid to actually be seen. You are afraid to actually sell your service, and that is one that I had when I first started. I was like, well, but what if people actually buy my program? And then I have to do my program and it would scare me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:00:46]:

Welcome to the creator's adventure where we interview creators from around the world hearing their stories about growing a business. Hey, everyone. I'm Brian McAnulty, the founder of Heads Platform. Let's get into it. Everyone, we're here today with Heather Morrison. She is a public speaking coach award winning theater artist and broadcaster from Canada. She has worked as a backfill radio host and weather specialist for CBC and as a sideline reporter for a number of sports platforms, including national coverage on TSN. She is the founder and president of deliver your best coaching, a public speaking business that transforms individuals into confident and authentic speakers.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:31]:

Her signature program helps driven professionals overcome their fear of public speaking so they can advance their career. Heather has more than a 100,000 followers on her Instagram page where she teaches people about public speaking and attracts clients from all over the world. Heather, welcome to the show.

Heather Morrison [00:01:48]:

Brian, thank you so much for having me.

Bryan McAnulty [00:01:51]:

Yeah. I'm excited to talk with you. My first question is what would you say is the biggest thing that you did or you are doing that has helped you to achieve the freedom to do what you enjoy?

Heather Morrison [00:02:02]:

Wow. Okay. Just the easy one right off the top. Work with my mind. That has got to be that has got to be the number one thing. Is that recognizing that often success success has been available to me at many different times. And I have just chosen not to take that route because of fear or beliefs that are getting in my way. And so I would say it's the biggest thing that I've done is challenge some of my own beliefs.

Heather Morrison [00:02:31]:

But then it's also, yes, something that I continue to do, and it's something that I help my clients with as well because they often have beliefs that are holding them back about public speaking that create a lot of nerves for them, that stop them from showing up and trying things. And when we change those beliefs, they can often change their ability.

Bryan McAnulty [00:02:51]:

Yeah. That's great. I'm curious. How how does that work exactly? Is that usually something that you focus on, like, it's happening in real time trying to check yourself, or is it something that's, like, later on realizing, like, what was some, like, beliefs that I might have had earlier this week or this month that actually are are not true?

Heather Morrison [00:03:12]:

Okay. So here's the thing about beliefs, is that they feel like they're truth because they're a thought that you've thought so many times. And so sometimes it takes a really long time for you to realize that it's just a truth that you're choosing for yourself when it comes to beliefs. And so I would say it's all different types, Brian. Like so sometimes it might be like, I'm struggling in this specific area of my business. For example, getting help. That's one of the things I think a lot of creators struggle with is, like, when do you start bringing someone else in to assist you? And I had a ton of blocks around that, and I could recognize that. So I would sit, and I would think, okay, you know, what are some of the things that I think about this? Okay.

Heather Morrison [00:03:57]:

I think that it's gonna take me longer to teach someone to do what I do then it would be for me to do it myself, or no one can teach my courses as well as I can. That's another belief that I had. So sometimes I can recognize it, and I'll tell you, Brian. Other times, I'm just, like, driving around, and I'm like, oh, that's a belief I have. Or like, oh, I'm stuck. I'm I'm just, like, beat really hard on myself. So it's a little bit of both. I think that's the benefit of having a coach in your corner.

Heather Morrison [00:04:26]:

I have a business coach, and then obviously I coach people is that we can often, like, hey. I'm hearing this here. I've heard this from you numerous times. Like, can we examine whether or not that's has to absolutely be true, or is there another truth that you could choose?

Bryan McAnulty [00:04:41]:

Yeah. That's really interesting. I I found myself, I think, hopefully, getting a little better at that recently and and being able to to check myself on things and realize, is this actually how it is, or am I just believing that? Do you have any specific process for yourself? I I agree. I think working with a coach is a great way to speed that up. Is there any specific process for yourself right now to, like, I don't know, a a routine of, like, writing things down every once in a while? Or

Heather Morrison [00:05:12]:

Yeah. I mean, I I journaled for 8 years. I don't journal as much, but I will go back to it if I need to. But I have a specific series of questions that I asked myself, and I wanna give full credit to another coach. It was this woman named Liz Nicholas, who I heard on a podcast, and she suggested these three questions that she called the thought analysis tool. So the question is, what do I think about this? What do those thoughts create for me? And what would I like to think about this? And I use that tool when I was struggling to break through in sideline reporting. As you said, I do sports coverage. So this is the best example that I can think of.

Heather Morrison [00:05:53]:

I should think of a public speaking related one with my course or my business, but, you know, this was a big deal for me. So I had when I sat down and I thought about how I thought of myself as a sideline reporter, I realized that I thought of myself as someone who got into the business too late. I was too old, and I was covering a sport that I was unfamiliar with. And so all those things held against me. And when I thought about all those things, how I felt was really deflated. I felt really unmotivated. I felt a little bit embarrassed almost just because of my age. And when I just sat with it a little bit longer and I asked myself that third question, I said, what would I like to think about this? And I said, okay.

Heather Morrison [00:06:31]:

Yes. I'm older, but I have a lot of, like, I have a lot more experience. And I know how to manage mistakes, and I know how to manage high pressure situations. These are all things that have come with my maturity. And I don't know the sport of basketball, but I'm such a keen learner. I love to learn new things, and it's really motivating for me. And when I package up all those new thoughts, I had all this new motivation, and I felt really excited. And then this was the key thing is that I changed my thoughts and then I changed my behavior.

Heather Morrison [00:07:00]:

So I started trading every single game like it was a playoff game, I got really aggressive in the way that I that I showed up, and I showed up as if I was a top level performer. And then last season, they asked me to go to the Western Conference finals and the championship weekend, which is when I started getting those national television opportunities. But it all started when I changed how I saw myself as a person.

Bryan McAnulty [00:07:22]:

Yeah. That's really powerful. I I'm relating that in, like, my own business. And for me, I feel like I can relate to to some of those ideas and and having to break through that where my business as a software company, we are a bootstrap company, and a lot of our competitors have all this venture funding. And I I purposely don't want that venture funding. I wanna do it my way. And, but there's a lot of differences there because, like, my competitors can go pour all this money into advertising where maybe they'll make it back in a few years. But for me, that is not, not what's gonna work, long term.

Bryan McAnulty [00:08:01]:

I need to figure out more short term. How can we be profitable? And so I realized instead of getting hung up on, like, maybe a weakness or or something where you feel somebody else has an advantage over you, like what you were talking about, is instead realizing, well, where do you have an advantage? What is unique or different about you? And once I shifted into realizing that, then I feel it was similar for myself that I could really focus in on those things. And now it was like, okay. Well, now I have the confidence. Now I'm going to I'm gonna win at it because this is how I'm gonna do it, and and my competitor can't do that thing.

Heather Morrison [00:08:41]:

Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. And I also think that those thoughts that you have when you're thinking about all the negativities. Because, like, everything can be true there. Right? Like, they can have an advantage. They can do things you can't do, and you could spend your time focusing on that. But those thoughts are really heavy, and they're gonna cloud out your mind. And it reminds me when I was running when I ran my marathon, I've only run 1.

Heather Morrison [00:09:03]:

When I was running my marathon around the 30 kilometer mark, I started to get really negative, like, it was hotter than it was supposed to be. The person who's supposed to drop my water didn't bring it to place, and my friend was meeting me earlier, and I didn't want her to be I needed her for the last 5 k. And I had all these thoughts in my head, And and then all of a sudden, this thought came out of nowhere. They said, hey. You know, what you're doing is already really hard. Do you really also wanna carry these really heavy thoughts with you? And like that, I realized that this best decision for me was just to let all that go. And so when you let all that go, like, you're creating space for you to see all those other opportunities and to get scrappy in your business. And, you know, Brian, like, I really think that because you're able to be so creative and find a way to use your position as a strength that you're gonna go so much farther, or the next thing you do in your life, you're gonna have all these tools that you didn't have because you weren't handed that opportunity.

Bryan McAnulty [00:10:02]:

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. My philosophy has kind of been that, like, worry it it doesn't make sense to worry about something. Put all your effort into that, especially if you're not gonna change it, and it's just this thing that's just taking up the space in your mind, as you said, and instead, you know, focus that on what you can change and and what you can do.

Heather Morrison [00:10:23]:

Yeah. And that's something I definitely found for myself is that I spent when I first got started as a content creator, creator created my course and was putting it out there, is that I really got stuck in the worry. I really got stuck in, is this gonna work? Are people gonna buy it? Am I actually helping people? And when I switched my mind, again, it was a huge belief shift that I had to make where as I started focusing on process instead. So I started just focusing on, am I showing up and doing the tasks that I know that I need to do every day? And my at that time, I was posting twice a day on social media, and I was showing up in a dedicated way for my clients. And then to me, that was I focused on process. And as long as I could check the process box each day, then I was successful whether or not I saw the numbers coming in at the time or not. And working that way for a year ultimately really served me. And I think that it's always how I wanna work as I really wanna be processed based so that I don't get stuck in the overall generalized anxiety worry that comes with running your own business.

Bryan McAnulty [00:11:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That's that's also my philosophy as well, I think, to focus on doing the things that I enjoy doing. So I would be doing the same thing tomorrow regardless of the outcome of today and and realizing that the outcome of any specific day or or thing that you try is really not important. And in the long term, for most people, I think there is no, like, one thing that they do that makes all of the difference. It's the combination of them doing all these things and then just doing it for such a long time. And so, yeah, if you focus on the process and then just keep doing it, I think that not only will you reach your end result or goal that you're going after, but you'll probably surpass it.

Heather Morrison [00:12:15]:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. If you ever want to help release yourself from being focused on success or failures in the moment, coach a kid's sports team. I coach, I coach my son's soccer team, my assistant coaches, but both team. You you are completely released from this idea that you need to win. You just get so focused on are the kids growing? Are the kids having a good experience? Can we see them develop? Are their mind you know, are we helping expand their mindsets, getting them into that growth mindset place and building all these skills that you know are gonna serve them later? So how come when we get into our thirties, we're like, oh, it has to be all firmly created, and now we just succeed or we lose. We've stopped focusing on growing. And, I think what you're talking about too there, I just wanna transition a little bit to what I do with public speaking coaching

Bryan McAnulty [00:13:02]:

Sure.

Heather Morrison [00:13:02]:

Is that that's a big deal for people with public speaking coaching too. It's just we're it's just removing this idea that there is good or bad public speakers, rather that we're all on this spectrum. And then what we're trying to do is we're just kinda trying to break apart the way that we think about that the experience of it so that overall, there's a bit of an expansion, a bit of a lifting. So the whole thing just becomes easier because we just tweak all these little things underneath us. So it's not like you have to suddenly become something different, but rather, we just move all these little pieces and slowly over time, it goes away. I just had someone who she graduated the program back in January, I think, And she messaged me today, so 5 months later. And she said, that she had successfully defended her dissertation, which was something that she was too afraid to do before my course. But that is she had the 10 weeks in the course, but then she also had 5 more months of working on it.

Heather Morrison [00:14:02]:

And I think 5 years from now, she'll she'll she'll think back, like, oh, one day I was afraid public like, I can't even remember what I this used to be scary for me. Right? But it just it takes time, and we have to be patient and realize that there's not, like, a switch that flips in terms of success for public speaking, for business, or for, playing Unite in soccer either.

Bryan McAnulty [00:14:25]:

Cool. So I'm curious what your thoughts on this are because we've discussed before on the show about the idea of, like, picking a marketing channel or a form of content creation that you, as a creator, that you like, that comes more naturally to you. But I wonder what you think because I also believe that if you're somebody that you're kinda starting out as a creator, you're kinda inexperienced with all forms of content creation, then it's also that, like, the better you get and the more you practice something, then maybe you like it more. Maybe you you you learn to like it or enjoy it more and all of that just because you're better at it. So what would you say to to somebody who's kind of afraid of creating video content or speaking or or talking on a webinar right now?

Heather Morrison [00:15:15]:

Yeah. Okay. It makes sense that it's scary because it is scary. And there's a number of blocks that come up for people that I think just aren't just about speaking in these situations or putting their face out there. And this is very true of all types of public speaking, is that often there's something else going on. There's a different fear that we have that's influencing it. But I think specifically, if you have a fear if you have a fear of showing up on a social media platform, or doing a webinar, one of your blocks may be that you are afraid to actually be seen. You are afraid to actually sell your service, and that is one that I had when I first started.

Heather Morrison [00:15:57]:

I was like, well, but what if people actually buy my program? And then I have to do my program, and it would scare me. So there's a couple things with this. Number one for me was getting in front of people and helping people. So when you do that, when you genuinely help people and you see the transformations in them, first of all, it's addicting, But also that can build your confidence in yourself. You have to hold on to your success and the transformation that you provide. You have to hold on to that when you're filming or showing up for a webinar. Because you have to remember that you're gonna continue that process. Those people are going to continue and get to that transformation.

Heather Morrison [00:16:38]:

So when you're showing up and you're selling, you're not forcing people to do something they don't wanna do. You're offering the right person the chance of this transformation. The other thing that helped me was I created a mantra, which is I do not fail people. I think that was one of the biggest blocks that I had is that someone would come into my program and then I would fail them. And so there are times where people come in and then they they don't finish my program and they become unresponsive to me. But otherwise, I have always like, I will grasp onto my students, and I'm gonna do anything I can to make sure that they succeed. That's my guarantee as a coach. And that also creates this baseline of confidence in me so that when I show up and I say, hey, come come look at these services I have to offer.

Heather Morrison [00:17:24]:

Come see if they're for you. I know that there is a guaranteed level of quality to it. So I think that is so helpful. So once you get that confidence in yourself and just by looking at the evidence that says, hey, you can do what you say you're doing here. I find that a lot of the blocks go away. So just continuing the point here. So if you have fear, that's really normal. And those are one of those things that you can explore and that you can develop and you will get over it.

Heather Morrison [00:17:57]:

And then also, you might go back into it sometimes. I have periods where I just feel like I'm on fire. I love creating content. I just feel so attached to what I'm doing, and then there's other times where I'm a little my self esteem is a little lower. It's not going for and there's just these cycles. I had an experience too where I went really, really viral, 47,000,000 views. And that experience actually made me wanna stop creating because it was so intense to be so seen. So I think it's just realized that just because it doesn't feel good, doesn't mean it's not the right thing.

Bryan McAnulty [00:18:33]:

Yeah. I'm interested. What do what do you think about, like, the fear of, I guess, being judged? Because for me, I had a realization that when I was in high school, I was in a rock band, and I had no problem, like, performing in front of a couple hundred people. Like, there there was maybe, like, a kind of anxiety that was, like, excitement before, like, the show. But when I was doing it, like, I was kinda in the zone, so, like, it was it was fine. But at the same time in my life, I was in, like, the choir class in school, and if I had to, like, sing in front of the choir teacher, I was, like, afraid, embarrassed. I would perform horribly because I was afraid that, like, he was gonna judge me. And I realized, like, at first, it felt kinda ironic.

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:21]:

Like, I can do it in front of the couple hundred people, but not in front of 1.

Heather Morrison [00:19:25]:

Mhmm.

Bryan McAnulty [00:19:26]:

And I I guess it came down to just getting in my head about being worried that he's gonna judge me. And then when I was performing in front of other people in my band, it was like, I'm just doing my thing, and I don't care what people think. How how can somebody, like, get themselves into that right mindset to not be, like, in their own head about it?

Heather Morrison [00:19:50]:

Ma'am, this is a great question and great comparison too because often times people feel more comfortable public speaking in certain scenarios rather than others, and so it's great that you just drew up that example of this situation works for me and this situation doesn't because of the thoughts that I have about it. That's often what I teach people. What do you think about this particular situation that's holding you back? So oh, man. Okay. So fearing the judgment of others has got to be one of the top things that people come to my course to work on. And I have tried so many different ways to help people help people get through this. And the most successful way that I think someone can manage this situation is that it's less about not caring, and it's more about being able to tolerate the feeling that it's probably happening to you.

Bryan McAnulty [00:20:43]:

Mhmm.

Heather Morrison [00:20:44]:

But it's also I mean, you have to consider what do you want in your life? What do you want for yourself, and what do you have to offer other people? And is it worth it to not go after those things to save yourself from the feeling of being judged?

Bryan McAnulty [00:21:08]:

Yeah. I think that's a great way to look at it.

Heather Morrison [00:21:10]:

Yes. And the the reality is you are you will you will be judged. Like, you just you will because we're all different human beings who have different perspectives on the world, and we're going to think different. We're just gonna think differently, and that's the beauty of the human experience. We need different minds because if everybody had my mind, we would never have an iPhone. I could never have invented that. Right? So we need different people. And that means that people aren't going to like you.

Heather Morrison [00:21:42]:

But I have found personally, and this works really well, is the people that are not for you mostly but when I judge people, I don't feel very good about it. I I I would be embarrassed if someone were to force me to say my judgmental thought because I don't like having that thought, and I do think the majority of people are like me. They might feel a judgment, but they're not gonna share it. And if they do share it, I don't know. I don't know you about you, Brian, but I don't like people around me that complain and judge. I don't like to be around that type of energy. And the people that complain and judge usually do it about a lot of people. So my my opinion of their opinion has lowered a lot.

Heather Morrison [00:22:32]:

I'm not gonna take something that they say as fact or face value. So I think all those things combined help me, but, again, it's a process. Again, it's that we're not gonna flip a switch and suddenly become so comfortable being judged. We're it's a prop. We're gonna have to constantly be working on it, but just always remembering that what we gain in this life from being willing to be judged is so much better.

Bryan McAnulty [00:23:02]:

Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you've got a program or product, something that you're offering people that that you really believe is going to help them, then you've got to kind of frame it as how can you feel comfortable to not tell them about it? How How can you feel okay with yourself to have created this thing that you're gonna help people and then you're not gonna tell them because you're afraid? Like, like, you could argue, is it is it fair to them for for you to be stopping delivering what you could because you have some kind of discomfort with, how some people might react to it.

Heather Morrison [00:23:35]:

Oh, yeah. That's what I always say. I say, wave the flag. All you're doing is you're waving a flag saying, this is what I do and this is who I help. And you're just waving it because somebody needs you. Somebody needs you. And I will give you this is how I'll prove it to you. Do you see how my hair is kinda like wavy curly say? I discovered that I have curly wavy hair because of a content creator on Instagram.

Heather Morrison [00:23:57]:

She was like, oh, if your hair gets frizzy after you brush it, you actually have a little bit of wavy hair. That she could have sat in her house, been like, that's dumb. Nobody needs to know this blah blah blah. Right? But instead I was like me, I need to know this, you have saved my hair, it's so much healthier now. And for me, I wave the flag and I say if you're afraid of public speaking and you like working on it in a way that like, increases your self confidence, increases your self awareness, and your per and and is really personal development focus, then I'm for you. But I'm not trying to ram myself down the throat of everybody else around that, that I'm not for. Right? There's some really corporate people that don't want to solve their public speaking the way I solve it, and that's fine. But I'm waving the flag for the people that do want my help.

Heather Morrison [00:24:46]:

And you know what? A lot of people come my way because this is a very big problem that I solve for people.

Bryan McAnulty [00:24:52]:

Yeah. Well, that's the best way to do it too because so many creators have been worried about AI and and all of that as it continues to improve. But, like, AI can't beat you because it doesn't have your unique experiences and your unique message. And so, like, yeah, there's other people that teach public speaking too, but nobody has the same unique message and experience that you do. So you shouldn't try to be like everybody else. You should lean into what makes you different because that's gonna attract certain people.

Heather Morrison [00:25:24]:

Vibe match. That's how I think of it. Do your vibes match? And so and that's one of the things I also wanted to say as well when you're talking about which platform do you choose, I mean, less about which platform you choose to advertise, but more which one can you show up like yourself? Which one can be authentic on? Because you need to be you because they need to to know who they're gonna get into a relationship with. Who who are they gonna be educated by? And you gotta know that's their honing system is, does their vibe match? Like, do they feel a connection with you? There's other public speaking coaches, you know, a lot of them really. They film themselves in really, like, rich backgrounds, nice clothes, always done up. And often, I teach my public speaking lessons with no makeup cooking in my kitchen, because that those people the people that come to me want that. They want that trust. They want that and and they're looking for the things that I'm looking for in life, which is just more time freedom, more control, more ability to be present with my family as opposed to I'm working for that yacht.

Heather Morrison [00:26:27]:

Right? And so I attract the right people because I show up as I am. So but and I'm not dissing. Like, if you are someone who really loves fine things and you wanna show up that way because you wanna work with people who love fine things, then show up that way. Just as

Bryan McAnulty [00:26:41]:

long as it's true for you. Yeah. That's great. I have a question when it comes to, like, actually creating the content. Let's say, like, creating it, presenting it. Let's say we got over the fear part. Do you have any tips when it comes to, like, getting into the zone of having a higher energy level when you're speaking or presenting? And I ask because this is something I feel would benefit me to work on. My my standard, delivery of my voice and communication is pretty monotone.

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:10]:

No expression on my face. And, like, maybe that's good for playing poker, but it's not exactly great for, like, speaking on the stage in front of people or things like that. And I find I really have to to put effort into getting myself into this state of more expressiveness and excitement. I wonder if you have any recommendations of, like, how to get myself into that state easier or more reliably maybe.

Heather Morrison [00:27:35]:

Are there times where you feel it's easier to express yourself?

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. I would say, when talking about something that I, really feel strongly about.

Heather Morrison [00:27:49]:

Mhmm. And are there people or, like, certain relationships you have in your life where it's easier to be expressive?

Bryan McAnulty [00:27:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. Those, I guess, closest to me.

Heather Morrison [00:28:00]:

Yeah. Okay. So that is one of the easiest ways to do it, to draw upon, is to think about those circumstances. So before you get in the camera or you start talking to the camera or before you get on stage, think about those relationships and those people that bring that out of you. And when I'm filming for social, when I'm doing a webinar, I look at the camera and I I remember that, you know, thousands of people may see what I film, but they're only consuming it 1 on 1. So I never feel like I have to have big presentational energy. It will land better if I look at that camera, and I talk to my my my ideal client, and I wanna talk let's break that open a bit. But but the point is is that it's 1 on 1 energy.

Heather Morrison [00:28:48]:

But for you, you may be thinking about that as someone that you're close to, someone that you feel comfortable being a little more expressive around. Right? For me, I have a very specific idea. I've done this throughout my whole broadcasting career of how I wanna be perceived by my audience, which is I want them to believe that if they saw me on the street, they could introduce themselves because we would be friends. Like, they I want them to feel like if they knew me, we would be friends. Some of my favorite broadcasters had that attitude towards them, and that's always what I wanted to give off. And so for me, it was actually very satisfying when I have my career career in radio, people will use to approach me because I think it's working. I'm doing what I wanna do. So that's what I think.

Heather Morrison [00:29:29]:

I think about what if I was meeting someone, and I wanted to make it clear to them that I would like to be friends with them? How would my energy be? And just that changes it. So I feel like my shoulders open up, there's a bit more warmth. And so when we're thinking about that, and we're thinking about giving that that person that experience, I'm I'm putting that person that's on the other side of the camera in my warm gaze. I'm giving them this energy for them to make them feel good. And I do all those things when I film and when I do webinars or, of course, when I coach too as well. Right? And I find that all of that just brings out an authentic version of me that has that expression that I'm looking for.

Bryan McAnulty [00:30:13]:

Yeah. I like that. Yeah. So focusing on talking to that one person. And, yeah, I think when you can do it that way, then they connect to you so much better whoever is watching it because they feel like, wow. This person is just like talking to my friend. I feel like I know them.

Heather Morrison [00:30:29]:

Oh, yeah. It's gonna bring out a whole different side of you, I think. I also think, you know, for you specifically, it's like, you gotta recognize as well that So when you do this podcast, you're the conduit for the audience. They're kind of living this, but, you know, I'm talking a lot, obviously, and then you're there to bring the thoughts out of me. So you're there to help the like, ultimately, they're sitting in your spot, and so they want to see you ask the questions that they're thinking, but also develop that relationship with me. Like, they want to see us interact in a friendly manner. And so it's like you almost do it on their behalf because you kinda have to live up to that as a podcast host, which is a which is a little hard, but it's something that will make your guest feel more comfortable, and then also you're doing a service to your audience. So that's something that you can explore with too is trying to, like, create those friendships in those 30 minutes.

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:23]:

Yeah. Awesome. Alright. I appreciate that.

Heather Morrison [00:31:25]:

Also just say, when you smile and you're expressive, it's great, like, it makes me feel more comfortable, so you should definitely I hope you feel more encouraged to do it more often because it's great.

Bryan McAnulty [00:31:34]:

Alright. Awesome. Thanks. Next, I'm wondering how does somebody deal with perfectionism when it comes to speaking? Because I saw some content on your Instagram talking about this, and I know a lot of our creators deal with perfectionism and all kinds of different things. The the website they're building, the email they're writing, or how they're speaking to people. So what's your suggestions for that?

Heather Morrison [00:31:56]:

Yeah. I mean, a few different thoughts. The number one thing to know about speaking is that trying to be perfect will will be the death of your speaking. There is no perfect public speaking performance. It's like trying to play a perfect game of football without any error. As soon as there's an error, the whole game is lost. So you have to realize that error is part of the game and that mistakes are part of the game. And that it's more about how you are responding to them that is going to make or break your performance.

Heather Morrison [00:32:28]:

So if you are doing a webinar, you're coaching somebody, and you make a mistake, that you missay a word or mispronounce a word, I think you even missay. Like, that's not a real word. But if you mispronounce a word, are you gonna take that as evidence that you're bad, that you're wrong, or that this is no good anymore? Or you're just gonna go, oh, whoops. I said the wrong thing, and then you keep going. The more you can let those things go and stay present in the moment and focus on what you're doing, the better. I mean, again, I'll go back to sports recording. I got body slammed by a £240 basketball player, and I got up and I did an interview with another player bleeding. Because I'm just so, like, mistakes happen.

Heather Morrison [00:33:10]:

Well, I'm from Saskatchewan. I'm from the prairies in Canada. We're we're built up, but it's, you know, in my mind, it's just, like, that wasn't obviously, it was unexpected, and it hurt a lot, But it's just I expect the unexpected. When something like that happens, I'm like, you know, anything can happen with public speaking, and the show must go on, and I have to continue. It doesn't mean that I'm bad or done anything wrong. And so that helps a lot in terms of perfectionism. I had another thought on perfectionism, but I've lost it because I talk too long on that one. But, hopefully, that's helpful for people because there is no perfect.

Heather Morrison [00:33:43]:

And striving for perfect is honestly, it will do you more harm than good. It's gonna make you tight, and it's going to just bring out a lot of negative self talk when you inevitably inevitably make a mistake or a mistake happens to you. For example, right before we got on this call, I had found out that I couldn't use my computer because, I needed to update my browser, so I had to take a call on my phone, which I don't like. I have a professional setup with a gray camera and light for my laptop. And I could have said, oh, I'm a terrible professional. Oh, now, like, I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't know what I'm talking about, and this is so embarrassing. But instead, for me, it's the show must go on, and I am here to give people what I have in my heart and my mind about showing up as a creator and showing up as a public speaker. And so I can't take this little piece of evidence and lower my self esteem so much that I can't help people.

Heather Morrison [00:34:38]:

I have to just say, you know, that wasn't ideal, and I'm gonna make sure it doesn't happen again, but the show must go on.

Bryan McAnulty [00:34:45]:

Yeah. I like that. I think things would be boring if if everything was perfect. And if you can become comfortable with imperfection, it will really help you, not only in, like, delivery of your content and and speaking, but also, like, for me, noticing that a lot and, like, building the product and everything and then building the design of it and realizing, like, things are not gonna be not everything can be perfect exactly the way that I want to, but as long as I'm continuously improving it. And as you said, like, the show must go on, Just continuing to work on it, eventually, it'll get to a better point.

Heather Morrison [00:35:22]:

Well okay. I I mean, this is exactly it, and that was a point I wanted to also make perspectives. And we cannot sit back and watch and then enter the game and know exactly how to play. The only way to learn is by getting in there. So the only way to learn how to write better emails is to write emails. The only way to learn how to do make better content is to make content. Like, you have to go in there. I I talk about this with speech writing too.

Heather Morrison [00:35:49]:

You can't just work it out all in your mind. Some people can maybe, and then write out the perfect speech. You have to be willing to write a bad speech first, and then write a better speech. It's kinda like this idea of, like, you have you have a, like, a, like, a rough stone, and in your mind, you're just gonna think about it being polished. Right? And then all of a sudden, it's gonna go you actually have to polish it. Like, you have to take the action, and you have to work it, not in your mind, but with your hands, with your voice, with your body. And eventually, you'll get to the place where you have a beautiful polished stone, But it's not gonna be your first attempt, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just that's process.

Heather Morrison [00:36:30]:

That's the reality of life.

Bryan McAnulty [00:36:33]:

Yeah. So how did you come up with the program that you're offering your customers today? And can you tell us a little bit more about what that is?

Heather Morrison [00:36:42]:

Yeah. So I used to be afraid of public speaking. I didn't realize that because I had worked as an actress, and I was really comfortable in radio when nobody could see me. But then all of a sudden, I had to start hosting events in my hometown, and I was I had to be myself in front of a 1000 people, and the wheels came off the bus. Like, it was terrible. And a lot of nerves, a lot of anxiety, and the worst was the dread. So I would probably spend, like, an entire day or entire sleepless night before the public speaking event, just absolutely dreading it. And then walking away afterwards feeling like that was terrible.

Heather Morrison [00:37:17]:

Why would anyone ever ask me back? I never wanna go through that again. But because I was in radio and I didn't own my own time, I was being put up in crowds once a week. So I realized I had to get over it. I looked up all the regular public speaking advice, which was like, put your hands on your hips, make a certain amount of eye contact. I'm like, how could I possibly do that when my entire core feels like a hollow burnt marshmallow? Like, the whole thing is gonna come crumbling down. So I figured out how to get over it on my own. People started asking me for advice slash I started hearing people say the things I used to say, and I used to offer advice. Then I started getting asked to do talks, and then I broke up my talk into 4 different sections, added more material, and then I put a group of 8 people through it for a really low price.

Heather Morrison [00:38:03]:

So people that I knew, people that already had a lot of trust in me, and we worked through it together. Then I just kept building from there. So then it was then it eventually now, I just I can't even tell you how many iterations. I think I'm on my 22nd cohort of the program. Now it is 10 weeks long, so 10 1 hour sessions instead of 4. I have 2 hours and 40 minutes of recorded material, and then I have all these certain assignments that I do and reflection exercises that I do that I know work. So it really came from this, like, baby idea. And now I charge 2,000 per person in order to do it, and I run 3 cohorts simultaneously.

Heather Morrison [00:38:46]:

So I run them 3 at the same time.

Bryan McAnulty [00:38:50]:

Awesome. Yeah. I think this is such an important piece of advice, what you just said, for those who are still working on building the product because I see so many people get stuck on thinking, I'm gonna sit and and make that one perfect product. But like you just talked about, it can't be perfect if you don't put something out there and then iterate on it. And so, yeah, now going through all those iterations and getting that feedback and seeing what's working, seeing what you need to improve, that has let you create what you've built today.

Heather Morrison [00:39:21]:

Absolutely. And I still experiment with it. This group I put through, I tried a new assignment. And you know what? I didn't actually like where it landed. I put it in the 3rd class, but I did like it, but it has to go in the 7th class. But I never would have been able to intellectually figure that out. I had to try it out on on human beings. I mean, overall, they still get a good experience, but I'm always, like, how can I make this a little bit better?

Bryan McAnulty [00:39:45]:

Yeah. Alright. I've got one more question for you, and that is, on the show, I'd like to have every guest ask a question to the audience. So if you could ask our audience anything, whether something you're curious about, something you kinda wanna get everybody thinking about, what would that be?

Heather Morrison [00:40:02]:

Well, I'll ask them the question that saved me, and I alluded to it at the beginning of this conversation, is that when I was first getting going with my business and I had that overwhelming anxiety, I was also simultaneously training for half marathon. And I thought I never worry if my half marathon is gonna happen because I always do my run, I always do my rest day, I always do my strength training. Every day I just show up and I take the action, so I don't worry that the outcome if the outcome is coming or not. I know it well. So I asked my business coach at that time, what are the actions? What's the process to make me successful? What do I need to do every single day that I can make myself so to guarantee success for myself? So I guess that's my question for your audience is, what is your process that you can use to say whether you succeeded or failed? Because to me, then it was like, okay, I have to post 2 reels a day. I have to post once. I have to send one newsletter letter a week. Right? Like, I had my checklist, and as long as I checked my list, I was successful.

Heather Morrison [00:41:11]:

And in the long run, I saw great results. So that's the question, is what is your process? What are the daily actions that you can take that can lead to success? And so you can take away some of that anxiety for yourself.

Bryan McAnulty [00:41:25]:

Awesome. I really like that because I think everybody's worried. Like, what's the secret? What's the secret that's gonna make me successful? And, really, there is no secret. It's that you just have to have that process for yourself and just keep doing it.

Heather Morrison [00:41:42]:

I know. I have to tell you, Brian. Sometimes I'm like, but can't what it what is what's Alex Hormozi's secret? Like, he seems like he's just doing really good. He must know something I don't. But unfortunately, yes. It seems like it is. It's daily actions. It's daily actions.

Heather Morrison [00:41:58]:

Yeah.

Bryan McAnulty [00:41:58]:

Yeah. Alright. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Heather. Before we get going, where else can people find you online?

Heather Morrison [00:42:05]:

K. Great question. So, deliver your best dot com is my website. I'm on instagram at deliver.your.best. And then, also, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Heather Morrison, public speaking coach, because I'm starting to transfer over to that platform too. So I do plan to start doing a lot of content and some video content there as well. So, hopefully, it would be great to connect.

Heather Morrison [00:42:27]:

And if anybody has any questions about anything, they can just reach out. I'm always happy to connect. And, Brian, thank you so much. This was so great. What an interesting conversation.

Bryan McAnulty [00:42:35]:

Yeah. Thank you. I'd like to take a moment to invite you to join our free community of over 5,000 creators at creatorclimb.com. If you enjoyed this episode and wanna hear more, check out the Heights YouTube channel every Tuesday at 9 AM US Central. To get notified when new episodes release, join our newsletter at thecreatorsadventure.com. Until then, keep learning, and I'll see you in the next episode.